UTMC

Okay, so no ulterior motives here, but I was listening to some local DJs here the other night and they were talking about a poll that was done and discussing what those polled considered to be or not to be "cheating."

Examples of what some guys found to be cheating that girls did not (again, the author refrains from any association or personal opinion at this moment)...

*dirty dancing with a guy at a club
*online chatting (of a sexually explicit nature)
*kissing an old boyfriend

Then I recall a friend of mine (who was and is still married) who was involved in some online sex stuff, and she didn't see anything wrong with it. I'll hold my comments for now.

Just wanna hear from y'all on the matter. What is or is not cheating???

Simply put...if you would do it with your significant other in the room.....it aint cheating......

Gauss wrote:Simply put...if you would do it with your significant other in the room.....it aint cheating......

So, then you masturbate to internet pornography with your s/o in the room?:mrgreen:

I think one has to consider intent when words like fidelity are used. Wasn't it Jimmy Carter who said, "I have commited the sin of infedility in my mind many times"? Ultimately, I think that cheating is doing that which you know is wrong. I look, I ponder, I'll even discuss, but that's as far as I let it go because my personal morals don't give me the lattitude to take things any further because I know it would be wrong. I think, though, that many of us have been in the situation of being accused of "cheating" for looking, pondering, or even discussing someone else by a s/o who wasn't confident enough in themselves to realize that the aforementioned activities are human nature and don't actually mean anything.

Well, I'm sure I've sufficiently planted my foot in my mouth here. Enjoy.

Ames wrote:Ultimately, I think that cheating is doing that which you know is wrong. I look, I ponder, I'll even discuss, but that's as far as I let it go because my personal morals don't give me the lattitude to take things any further because I know it would be wrong.

That's exactly part of my point...what is it, then, when one party knows it's wrong, but the other party doesn't consider the act to be wrong?

This one is very difficult to answer because I have been on both sides of this "poll". Take me for instance as a person. I am a natural flirt. I do so without thinking about it and it is so ingrained it takes conscious effort to NOT flirt when the situation arises. Some one close to me couldn't understand it and took it as me beign unfaithful. Until she finally did realise, that it is part of my character. Now we jump back a few years. My EX at the time was not the flirtatious type. She understood the way I was and dealt with it because she realised it was my nature. Well she got it in her head to flirt. Ok thats fine by me, I don't throw stones. She however didn't realise when a flirt, was not a flirt but an actual come-on invitation on her part. And soon her flirtations turned into cyber sex. What made it wrong is the lengths she would go to deny and try to hide it. That to me was cheating, it wasn't the act, it was the lying about it and the hiding it that made it cheating. I write erotica as a hobby*, and have written erotica with female writers I know. Was it cheating? To someone looking in and not knowing the situation I could see it as cheating, but if you knew the situation and the basis for the combined writing then no it wasn't. Neither of us took it as sexual stimulation just mearly words on a screen. That isn't cheating. There are UTMCers I would love to meet in person that I know I would end up flirting with in person, but I know that if I felt a change in the way those flirtations were either received or returned then its time to back off and make a conscios effort to not lead them on. If we as a group went to a nightclub and I ended up dancing with one, is it to assume that because its a racy song that anything wrong is happening? Or is it mearly two adults dancing? To someone looking on it may appear as sex with our clothes on, but what if to us, its just a very in tune dance? My Ex actually liked to watch me and her friend dance, because as with when I danced with her, we could make the entire dancefloor stop. But there was nothing sexual about it at all, we just meshed ourselves that well witht he music and each other. So you can't just say that X+Y=cheating when its consenting adults that simply know that what they are doing isn't sexual in focus or intent even if that is how it can appear.

*I have written erotica since I was 15.

I think personally that cheating is all based on your perception of right and wrong. Also, infidelity is sometimes a misconception of boundaries, or a reckless disregard thereof.
In this day in age, there are plenty of 'marriages of convenience'; simply put, a relationship that is preserved for the purpose of the children, or just cuz it is simpler than breaking up, etc, etc.
For example, I have a very good friend that he and his wife are of the understanding that they are no longer in love, but for the sake of their kid they want to stay together. Both parties, however have given the other the 'go-ahead' to pursue other prosepcts and in fact do not participate in sexual relations with each other anymore. (I have spoken to both parties, not just one or the other and this information is verified through both avenues). They, in fact, sleep in separate bedrooms.
Well, anyway, point being, I think that everyone should have a mutual respect for a certain person's personal beliefs and realize that one person's perception of cheating or infidelity is different than someone else's.
And above all, everyone should always try to live by the rede:
'Do what you will, but harm none in the process.' This is where I would draw the line on infidelity. Is this going to hurt someone? If so, maybe it shouldn't be done. Cuz after all, you know what happens when karma comes knocking for your ass!
I think that should cover it. Or does that make any sense at all?
-Charlotte

*I have read erotica since I was 15!

For me, infidelity is defined by trust more than a rigid set of boundries that everyone would agree upon.

As others have pointed out different relationships have different limits regarding interaction with people outside the relationship. Cheating basically comes down to betraying the trust that is the core of any relationship.

...hmm...

Sounds like avoidance and self deception to me. And should this be turned around how would they feel? This person sounds like they have a moral and ethical compass thats about half a bubble off. Given the selfish nature of what they are doing, they probably can't be trusted in a pinch either.

They want everything without working for or earning it. They will eventually tear themselves and their other apart.

Cheating doesn't have to include the physical act of sex. As its been pointed out before, its all in your head. Sex ain't Sex with out brain work. Thats why guys like pics and women like stories.

I think I'll stop now......

Now I wonder are both people wrong, or just the one that is betraying someone?

spidergirl1nonly wrote:...do not participate in sexual relations with each other anymore....

I think they call that marriage Seriously tho, I agree with the idea that there aren't really rules, except as defined by the couple. Some partners are ok with lots of things that others aren't.

Lies are only as serious as the acts that they cover. Most people wouldn't call looking at a playboy magazine "cheating", but I've heard about significant others getting more than a little flustered about it. On the other hand, I know of one friend who's wife picks up other women and brings them home to him for threesomes (some guys just get all the luck eh?)

Also, what if there is little to no interest in sex by you or your significant other? Isn't it just as much of a betrayal to force the person one loves to go without something that makes them happy as it is to cheat? I've heard countless times about the cheating husband/wife or boyfriend/girlfriend, and even more about the ones who have lost all interest in sex, yet insist that their partner be faithful. I would count both categories as being unfaithful and cruel.

In the end I think it all comes down to the dynamics of each relationship.

Dewey wrote:For me, infidelity is defined by trust more than a rigid set of boundries that everyone would agree upon.

As others have pointed out different relationships have different limits regarding interaction with people outside the relationship. Cheating basically comes down to betraying the trust that is the core of any relationship.

Good point, Dewey. I seem to recall an invitation to eat at Cracker Barrel was received with an adamant NO! because that would be worse than cheating! hahahaha!

...so what ya'll are saying is that I should take the handcuffs off Raquel Welch and let her go home to here family? Damn...she was beginning to dig me too.

I have to agree with Bandit 12 on this one....

I'm open to conducting research!

My girl and I are 1000km apart and I still hit the club every week. She knows from highschool that the WORST thing you can do to me is decree that i cant do something, she told me when i said "you know i dont want you worrying about what i get up to, I love you abd i dont want to mess around anymore" she said "Its ok, I trust you"... No threats... No Judgements... No powerplays

Since then, ive had one glaringly obvious opportunity to spend a few hours between the thighs of a very fit brunette. But I didnt because my girl trusts me. I love the fact that she knows me well enough not to order me around and also that she trusts me not to mess up.

IMHO cheating isnt an issue of what the other party thinks is cheating, its an issue of what you think is cheating.