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Why Andy *won't* be buying American (and also doesn't care)
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:55 pm
by the_shy_ember
Look out below, I'm gonna rant for a bit.
This isn't really a companion to Rench's rant, posted
here, but it is somewhat related.
Those of you I've spoken to about this know that I'm currently saving what little surplus coin I have to my name towards a nicely large down payment on a '98-to-'04-ish (one could almost call that "modern" -- gasp!) motorcycle.
I've been looking at the usual suspects in the "big 4" -- but I've also been leaning towards a Buell, just to throw everyone off and 'bat for the home team' for once in my contrarian life.
Recently, I got the idea that I might be able to snag a decent, smaller, and older bike for commuting purposes, without really putting a dent in my larger plans.
I found such a bike on Saturday: a 1978 KZ200. 200cc single, cable disc up front, flat seat, etc. This one was apart, but had less than 6,000 miles on it. It sounded promising and I went to investigate it last night, on my way back to Madison from a prior engagement. It was wonderful. It was mostly assembled. It ran. The seat was perfect, the tank paint was shiny, and the owner wanted $1 per CC, plus he'd throw in a box with all the parts that weren't currently installed.
We talked shit for a good 45 minutes, and at the end I said I'd have to sleep on it, for I had promised my wife that I wouldn't buy it in the middle of the night. Plus, I needed my loading ramp and tie-downs. I said I'd be back tomorrow after work and left, feeling on top of the world.
I called the seller up after work, as we'd agreed, and let him know I'd be coming (after I took care of some errands I needed to run). I finished up, withdrew the money and returned to my apartment where I could load up my ramp and clear out my car. I was about to leave when I checked my email on my phone:
the asshat wrote:Andrew I sold the KZ200
Thanks for looking {name of asshat}
Sent to me 11 minutes earlier --
while I was withdrawing the money!
I called him: "You sold it?"
He replied: "Yeah, guy who was gonna buy my 650 noticed it and bought it right there. Sorry. Guy with money, y'know? What was I supposed to do?"
I held my tongue. I shouldn't have, but I knew it'd do me no good. "Maybe because you should have some
fucking integrity, fucking
tard!" I should have said.
I am seething with anger right now...
So...
This is why I won't be buying American for my next bike. Buying
American supports
Americans.
Fuck Americans. Fuck buying a commuter bike. Fuck buying anything American. Fuck buying a Buell. Fuck the Americans who built it. Fuck 'em all. Fucking fuckers.
There... rant over. Fuck.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:03 pm
by Pancake
I had the same thing happen to me when I lived in Denver.. I tried to buy a cb550-4.. had talked to the owner and he knew I was coming.. and it was being loaded into the back of a bitchin el-camino when I pulled up to his house. Fuckers.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:41 pm
by Pintgudge
I don't get it.
Someone sold a Kawaski out from under you, and for that reason, you won't buy American?
You don't think that the same thing could have happened to you in Germany ,Italy, England, anywhere?
When I was shopping for my sidecar. two of them were sold out from under me.
On the purchase of the one I've got, I told the guy, Look, if everything is as you have described, the car looks good. Please take it off the market. I am coming to give you money, and I don't want to make the trip for nothing. I am committing to buying the sidecar.
I waited 'till I got an affirmative reply before I went.
And besides, If you refuse to buy Ameican, you will never own a Cerberus, and you will be very sad!
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:34 pm
by rc26
Had something similar happen to me awhile back. Assholes...
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:27 pm
by Disastermined
Pintgudge wrote:I don't get it.
Someone sold a Kawaski out from under you, and for that reason, you won't buy American?
You don't think that the same thing could have happened to you in Germany ,Italy, England, anywhere?
When I was shopping for my sidecar. two of them were sold out from under me.
On the purchase of the one I've got, I told the guy, Look, if everything is as you have described, the car looks good. Please take it off the market. I am coming to give you money, and I don't want to make the trip for nothing. I am committing to buying the sidecar.
I waited 'till I got an affirmative reply before I went.
And besides, If you refuse to buy Ameican, you will never own a Cerberus, and you will be very sad!
I'm fairly certain Andy's point was that and American (specifically the American to whom his money was about to go, regardless of the original manufacturer of the motorcycle) dicked him out of a bike for no good reason, and was an asshole with no integrity
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:32 pm
by Pintgudge
Yeah, but what I meant was that you have to be black and white clear and get an affirmative reply first, before moving forward.
Even so, we do live in the land of the clueless,
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:41 pm
by Groove
Pintgudge wrote:
Even so, we do live in the land of the clueless,
Ever met someone from Quebec?
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:35 pm
by piccini9
GrooveMonkey wrote:Pintgudge wrote:
Even so, we do live in the land of the clueless,
Ever met someone from Quebec?
Aw Hell, I was going to tell him to go buy a bike in Canada.
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:34 am
by roadmissile
He's got it right, fuck supporting Americans, they'll probably just spend the money on cheap brainburning drugs and bank bailouts anyway.
/RM
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:08 am
by Pattio
I often find myself advising novices about the process of searching for old scooters. I tell them you need three things to succeed: patience, mobility, and liquidity.
Patience to wait for what you are looking for. Don't force it (ie, search too far away so transportation issues take over, or buy the only example you can find on any particular day). Build contacts, network, save (see liquidity) and research. These are mass produced items we are talking about, and you will find another.
Mobility to find, see, and, very importantly, bring home what you are buying, at the time you make the purchase. For those who do not own a truck or van, you need to have live contacts to borrow one, with equipment (ramp etc) when and where you need it. Show up with a truck, ramp, and tie-downs, or stay home.
Liquidity to make the purchase, at the time and place of your first contact with the seller. If you are serious about making a purchase, you should be capable of making the purchase. You should not need to 'go to the bank' to get the money you need at the time you need it. Money for purchases like this should be in cash in your sock drawer, or withdrawn from your bank and in your pocket before you make the seller an offer.
Your personal discipline not to 'buy in the middle of the night' is admirable. Notice that you pointed out that the bike's tank and seat were cosmetically nice- that's because the tank and seat are just about all you can see under one swinging bare light bulb in someone's garage or shed. Bikes should be viewed in the harshest daylight available.
While I completely agree that the seller was unfair to sell the bike before you got there, and that I would be disappointed too if it happened to me, I also have to point out that you broke all of my rules of bike buying engagement in this encounter. Showing up at night, without the money, without a truck, without spousal approval, and walking away from a low price in order to then make your plans was an invitation to the outcome you got.
Better luck next time, and remember: fortune most favors those who have put themselves in a position to benefit from it. Patience, Mobility, & Liquidity.
Re: Why Andy *won't* be buying American (and also doesn't ca
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:51 am
by ninemileskid
andy_twotimes wrote: I said I'd have to sleep on it, for I had promised my wife that I wouldn't buy it in the middle of the night.
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:08 am
by EIF
As someone who has bought about 20 bikes in the last couple of years, I certainly agree with Pattio points on buying used bikes. I would add into avoid the "first one here with cash" sales. In the heat of being pressured that someone could come flying into the driveway with cash in hand makes us gloss over things that would be haggling points or even deal breakers. When I can get someone on the phone and they indicate that even if I am on my way with cash that they will sell it while I am in transit, I will usually walk away.
Another deal-breaker for me is if they can't tell me whether or not it rolls. Unless you can bring enough people to lift the bike into your vehicle, if the owner can't enlighten me regarding if the chain is seized, the brakes are seized, or the rear wheel is missing (happened once, no joke), I pass.
There are exceptions to this rule, but in general as my father used to say, "There will always be houses, there will always be cars."
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:22 am
by rc26
EIF wrote:As someone who has bought about 20 bikes in the last couple of years
Damn, I don't have anything on you...
Last night I sold some tires and wheels to a guy who was from waaaaayyyy out in the county. His wife came with him, she fessed up and mentioned that she's buying them for him as an anniversary present. Gotta like Redneck love...
Sorry, I know off topic.
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:03 am
by roadmissile
RC26 wrote:Gotta like Redneck love...
Damn, man, you just
know Priest is gonna nail you when you put together a sentence like that
/RM
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:03 am
by wheezy e
I'd not keep anything for three seconds for someone offered as much or more on the spot. When I sell something half the people who make appointments, even second appointments, to see it never actually show up. If you see the thing and want it but don't have all the cash on hand give the guy a deposit to hold it. THAT is the deal clincher. Give me a deposit, tell me when you can get the rest, even if it takes waiting for the next paycheck & the thing is yours. A stranger's word is about as good as a stranger's word. I get the impression that many of the super-excited sure-as-can-be buyers who only need to go to the bank when it opens are actually hoping that the evening's lottery ticket will enable them to buy it tomorrow. I don't actually own a KZ, but if the bike fits...
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:18 am
by rc26
roadmissile wrote:RC26 wrote:Gotta like Redneck love...
Damn, man, you just
know Priest is gonna nail you when you put together a sentence like that
/RM
I don't think he'll let us down...
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:19 am
by GOSTAZ
Bummer on losing the bike... as a seller, the only way I have ever held something for someone is if they gave me a deposit. Sometimes it was only 10 bucks, but it signified buyer's seriousness....I know it seems shitty, but I usually have something for sale for one reason.... I NEED MONEY. Sometimes I am bored with something or whatever, but the motivation is to get the fuck rid of whatever I am advertising. Space, money, or whatever... So if someone shows up with a way to haul and money? GONESKY!
First one there with cash wins. Pattio is right. Keep yer wad handy, and your eyes and ears peeled. And don't give up on a Buell. Well, give up if you want to, but I can tell you, they are awfully fun to ride.
Not busting on your rant, you are pissed and I understand why. Last piece of advice? Always buy the best rig you can afford. Godspeed in your search!
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:57 pm
by stiles
Pattio wrote:
While I completely agree that the seller was unfair to sell the bike before you got there, and that I would be disappointed too if it happened to me, I also have to point out that you broke all of my rules of bike buying engagement in this encounter. Showing up at night, without the money, without a truck, without spousal approval, and walking away from a low price in order to then make your plans was an invitation to the outcome you got.
Better luck next time, and remember: fortune most favors those who have put themselves in a position to benefit from it. Patience, Mobility, & Liquidity.
Bingo. I have dispensed virtually identical advice to many, many people looking for a deal on a bike or a car.
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:00 pm
by stiles
wheezy e wrote:I'd not keep anything for three seconds for someone offered as much or more on the spot. When I sell something half the people who make appointments, even second appointments, to see it never actually show up. If you see the thing and want it but don't have all the cash on hand give the guy a deposit to hold it. THAT is the deal clincher. Give me a deposit, tell me when you can get the rest, even if it takes waiting for the next paycheck & the thing is yours. A stranger's word is about as good as a stranger's word. I get the impression that many of the super-excited sure-as-can-be buyers who only need to go to the bank when it opens are actually hoping that the evening's lottery ticket will enable them to buy it tomorrow. I don't actually own a KZ, but if the bike fits...
This too, from when I'm selling things. Cash seals the deal, bullshit walks, and if you're selling something to strangers, first cash in hand wins. When I sold my 1098, I got a bunch of lookyloos wasting my time and I said the same thing to all of them from the outset:
Whoever puts $14,000 cash in my hands first gets it.
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:37 pm
by 12ci
hhhmmm...you knew (or should have known) going in that the seller is an asshole
after all, it is (was) a KZ