UTMC

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... php?page=1

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHea ... 168412.htm

Did anyone else realize that Clove Cigarettes are illegal in the US? What the fuck is going on? This is happening at the same time as major advancements are happening in the potential legalization of marijuana? The FDA says that it is to keep children from being enticed by their "palatable" flavors. Wow, I didn't realize that people only wanted to smoke things that taste like the back of a horses ass. (Also, it doesn't ban menthol. Really? Those are fine? Mint is OK, but clove isn't?) Guess who backed this legislation, tobacco companies.

Yeah Illegal, completely illegal, not just mandatory ID checks to determine if the person is old enough to smoke them, nope... Illegal, FOR EVERYONE.

I don't smoke, never been a smoker. Weed or otherwise, but holy crap, this seems completely misguided. Yet another example of "Save the children, Give up your freedoms." If I want to smoke a clove, I should be able to, I am an adult and I know what I am doing. Right now... today, it is easier to get WEED than it is to get a Djarum Black. God I love prohibition, in all forms. Remember how it always works out awesomely?

Also, the only things that I have ever seen kids smoking are filtered camels that they stole from their parents and the occasional American spirit or pall mall if they were cool kids, NEVER have I seen anyone under the age of 18 smoking a Djarum Splash.

The freedom of many destroyed by the stupidity of a few.

--Mag

Don't you care about the children?

Somebody get a pinky.

Safe children, or SomeMook smelling like a hipster with his swanky clove cigs. Tough choice.

Hello, angsty robot lurker. Nice intro?

Priest wrote:Safe children, or SomeMook smelling like a hipster with his swanky clove cigs. Tough choice.

Hello, angsty robot lurker. Nice intro?

Please see the following for actual introduction. Thank you and nice to be here. Angsty? A bit. Robot? Very Likely.

http://utmc-forum.org/pub/viewtopic.php?t=16612309

First Lucky Strikes, now this?
Hipsters everywhere must have the shakes.

MagnusTheBuilder wrote: The FDA says that it is to keep children from being enticed by their "palatable" flavors.

Translation:
The tobacco companies still wield power.

Firstly, the ban on them was directed at clove cigs in particular... Why? Because 100% of them are manufactured overseas... Most from indonesia. Sure, they saythat it's a 'children' thing... Bullshit. Kids won't pay $7 a pack for cloves because they taste like candy (or some such shit) They buy $2 Basics. So... In order to not seem like clove cigs are being singled-out (that would qualify as not-free trade) They call it 'flavoured cigarettes'... BUT Menthols are not included. You may be asking yourself; "Self, why is it that Menthol gigs are not included in this ban on flavoured cigarettes.. I don't understand that reasoning.." Well, it's simple. Admitted by the tobacco company that got behind the bill (see a trend?) They sell 20% of the TOTAL tobacco products in Amerika as Menthol. 30% of Amerikan smokers are 'African-Amerikan'. Nearly 90% of 'African-Amerikan smokers prefer Menthol. Now, I'm not trying to stir any shit, here... But it's an obvious reason they left Menthols out. Can't be havin' the 'black-folk' not be smokin' no mo'... I personally think it's a bunch of bullshit. 2 black friends smoke menthols... the rest either smoke cloves, or fuckin' Marlboros...

At any rate, as Clove Cigs are now banned, Illegal Contraband, There already has popped-up a quite extensive network of 'sellers'. Oh, and in case you've decided to do like I do mostly, and order them direct, online: You can't. Internet sales of ALL tobacco products are now a federal offense. Mail-fraud, via shipping illegal contraband...

I love Amerika!

Okay, now someone is going to say "Fuck-smokers!" Assholes shouldn't be clogging up my o2... Let 'em twist..." Yes well...
This is just One More Little Thing that the gubmint has taken away, that on the whole, affects a small proportion of the population... No big deal, Right? Just wait... It's gonna get better! Or worse, depending on your outlook...

Left,

I agree completely, this is why I was outraged. It isn't the exact product, it is the precedent set by prohibition. I don't think that the heart of this is a 'smoker' issue, I think it is an issue about the power that major industries have on the government and the willingness of said government to demolish any competitors who might be biting into the profit margins of the industry. They want something, they then package it as a way to 'save the children', by calling it things like 'Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act' or the 'No Child Left Behind Act' and suddenly politicians can't speak out against it because the proponents of the act will say things like "So you are FOR children smoking?" and the headlines the nest day will read "Senator believes that children should all be smokers!" and then that guy doesn't get re-elected because his constituents and local opposition will repeatedly cling to that tiny soundbite during his re-election bid. So that person says nothing, even though it is his job, that is why we put them in office.

That is exactly how our freedoms are auctioned off to the highest bidder. They are being nibbled away at. One tiny bite here, and another over there. Disguised as a noble endeavor. That is what I am upset about here. I don't give a fuck about goths and their stinky black cigarettes. I am just offended that the government gets to tell me that I can't do something, whether I want to or not. A week ago if my prerogative was to acquire a clove cigarette, all I had to do was go to a store and buy one. Today if I want the same cigarette I need a good understanding of the penalties related to international trafficking of illegal contraband. Does anyone else find this ridiculous, offensive, insulting, insane?

Last year there was a repeal on the ban of Vile Substance That Shall Not Be Named™ in the US. Do you think that happened because a politician fought really hard for your rights and mine? Fuck no! It happened because Anheuser-Busch or some other company of equal ilk decided it could make some money by offering a product and they needed to get around a little 'rule', so after greasing a few palms some big corporation offered you your freedom back, the freedom to buy one of their products.

This whole thing stinks nearly as bad as a terrible watermelon flavored clove the fucking hipsters were smoking.

Vile Substance That Shall Not Be Named™

these kids nowadays need to toughen the fuck up, I say let 'em roll bugler and top. If they complain abut that hand them a can of copenhagen and tell them to dry that out and smoke it, there are kids in China with nothing to smoke but tofu.



Banning cloves is stupid though.

Vile Substance That Shall Not Be Named™


Yep, still works.

While I think banning cloves is bullshit, I do feel the need to point out that the kids in my high school 9th grade very much preferred cloves when they could get 'em over, say, Marlboros or Camels.

While my personal experience proves nothing in particular, cloves remained very popular among the kids in my art school as well and more than one person I know smoked them until she started coughing up blood on a daily basis.

But it was her God given right to cough up blood if she wanted.

UndertheGun wrote:First Lucky Strikes, now this?
Hipsters everywhere must have the shakes.

I miss my Lucky Strikes.


WTF? What's next, flavored booze and flavored cigars? Maybe they should chemically extract all the flavor from fast food so kids won't be tempted to eat unhealthy food?

You don't need flavor, just nutrients.

Fucking nanny state.

I don't think I've met anyone over the age of 17 or so who smokes cloves. I also don't think I've met anyone over the age of 19 who drinks wine coolers. However, I think that these things should be banned because someone breaks the existing laws selling these things to minors.

I personally hate cloves. At age 16, I went to a drive in theatre with friends and we smoked about a whole pack of them in my car with the windows rolled up because it was drizzling. Basically, we hot boxed the car with clove smoke and I got really, really sick. Couldn't stand the smell of cloves for years afterward, which meant I couldn't eat pumpkin pie or really any sort of spiced deserts. What a damn drag.

I smoked cloves from time to time in college. This is so God-awfully stupid. Either ciggies should illegal entirely, or legal, entirely.

No M-H, they should not be illegal period. So called "Vice" laws scare the living shit out of me. I can't stand smoking, even though I did it for years. Am I glad that smokers cannot smoke inside restaurants? Yes, I enjoy the environment more, but I also enjoy going to a smoke-filled bar or concert from time to time because it adds to that ambiance. I accept it as a price of a free society that everyone need not share my desire to enjoy fine bourbon and can find their own psychological crutch to lean upon. It has been scaring the living shit out of me since the gubmint slapped so many restrictions on tobacco companies, what, eight years ago. Its a fucking business dealing in a product that people want. Is it dangeous, yes without a doubt. But people know that and still willingly spend their check on Friday to buy a new carton for the week. I agree with our new colleague Magnus, (welcome BTW) this is being done under the guise of the "children", when in fact it is the tobacco companies trying to keep out the smaller producers who do enter the market with flavored cigs. The thinking seems to be that since they live in a restricted market, no newcomers are allowed. So let's guilt the guv't into helping us since they fucked us over so royally back in the day.

Bigshankhank wrote:No M-H, they should not be illegal period. So called "Vice" laws scare the living shit out of me. I can't stand smoking, even though I did it for years. Am I glad that smokers cannot smoke inside restaurants? Yes, I enjoy the environment more, but I also enjoy going to a smoke-filled bar or concert from time to time because it adds to that ambiance. I accept it as a price of a free society that everyone need not share my desire to enjoy fine bourbon and can find their own psychological crutch to lean upon. It has been scaring the living shit out of me since the gubmint slapped so many restrictions on tobacco companies, what, eight years ago. Its a fucking business dealing in a product that people want. Is it dangeous, yes without a doubt. But people know that and still willingly spend their check on Friday to buy a new carton for the week. I agree with our new colleague Magnus, (welcome BTW) this is being done under the guise of the "children", when in fact it is the tobacco companies trying to keep out the smaller producers who do enter the market with flavored cigs. The thinking seems to be that since they live in a restricted market, no newcomers are allowed. So let's guilt the guv't into helping us since they fucked us over so royally back in the day.

I agree with you; they should be legal period. I just think the selective banning is far worse than the total banning. The "made illegal entirely" was meant to highlight my opinion, but I guess it didn't come out right.

I love old scotch, but what happens when the government decides that, since scotch isn't made in the US that the only thing to stay legal is Kentucky bourbon. We all have our vices, be they cloves, scotch or porn or whatever else us freaks are into.

Sure, each of these things only affect a small group of people but if you stand by watch freedoms be taken away and do nothing because they don't affect you, who will be there to help you when it does.

MagnusTheBuilder wrote:
... but if you stand by watch freedoms be taken away and do nothing because they don't affect you, who will be there to help you when it does.

Not to be a wet sock but... I really don't think that being allowed to smoke a cigarette, clove or otherwise, has anything to do "freedom."

In fact, I believe that majority of the people who smoke are addicted. There is no freedom in addiction.

Yes, I am an ex-smoker.

That being said... I wish America was able to legalize everything. Pot, Drugs, prostitution, whatever. I would prefer our government to run more like France, Germany, The Netherlands, and other like countries.

However, America can't... for several reasons.
1. big business.
2. culture issues (i.e. American marketing/consumer culture)
3. religions influence in American politics

Americans are not free. It is true that we have rights that other countries/people do not have. However, big business directly dictates what we will consume and what we won't.

I am currently reading Fighting poverty in America and Europe for class.

In the first few chapters, the American Dream is discussed.

" According to the World Values Survey (an attitudinal study conducted on about forty countries in the world ), 71 percent of Americans believe that the the poor could escape poverty if they worked hard enough, and only 40 percent of Europeans think the same."

Social mobility (movement up and down the income ladder) for majority of America is not very significant.

" The tendency of middle-income individuals to move upwards is slightly higher in the United States than in Europe. But the mobility of the poor (the bottom fifth, for example) is lower in the United States than in Europe. If anything, the American poor seem to be much more trapped than their European counterparts."

There are other problems with this myth. The middle class has been substantially declining since the 1970's.

And yet we have folks in the poorer states, such as in the south and across the plains, voting republican, going to church and holding on to the belief that if they work really hard, they will be OK. Since they are working hard, if other people work hard they too will succeed. However, according to these hard working Americans, it is absolutely necessary for others to pull themselves up by their own boot straps.

The sad part is... most Americans will never see this myth, or their beliefs passed down from previous generations, for what it is. Americans have been given a hope and they have interpreted as a fact.

The American Dream is a lie and you are not free.

red wrote:

UndertheGun wrote:First Lucky Strikes, now this?
Hipsters everywhere must have the shakes.

I miss my Lucky Strikes.

OK, I give. What happened to Lucky Strikes?

smashinator wrote:

red wrote:

UndertheGun wrote:First Lucky Strikes, now this?
Hipsters everywhere must have the shakes.

I miss my Lucky Strikes.

OK, I give. What happened to Lucky Strikes?

You can buy them online but I haven't seen them locally for about 4 years.

I can buy Lucky Strikes at the local Uni-Mart.

And I will miss the occasional clove.

I smoked cloves primarily until moving back to Colorado and realizing how much more I smoke socially, since the first of the year I've had seventeen cigarettes and one cigar.

Personally I'm certainly less likely to smoke much without them available, but fuck that shit, this is crap.

Of note, the congressional black caucaus partnered with the cigarette companies to keep menthols off this bill, and in other news stereotypes exist for a reason.

Apparently Djarum is releasing a small clove cigar in response, so it's a huge waste of everyone's time to little benefit, heh.

/RM

roadmissile wrote:
Apparently Djarum is releasing a small clove cigar in response, so it's a huge waste of everyone's time to little benefit, heh.

/RM

True, but the 'lawmakers' are aware of them, and are considering action accordingly... AND I might add; In Tenn the 'little cigars' aka cigarillos are automaticly illegal due to the fact that only single and 20 pack tobacco products are taxed... and in particular, Djarum only packages the cigarillos in 12's.. They only package the regular clove cigs in 20's for the US. Domesticly, they're 16 count.

MagnusTheBuilder wrote:I love old scotch, but what happens when the government decides that, since scotch isn't made in the US that the only thing to stay legal is Kentucky bourbon. We all have our vices, be they cloves, scotch or porn or whatever else us freaks are into.

Sure, each of these things only affect a small group of people but if you stand by watch freedoms be taken away and do nothing because they don't affect you, who will be there to help you when it does.

I agree with you all the way. I haven't smoked cloves in over 25 years cause I finally realized they suck a bag of dicks. But I hate laws against consenual activities even worse. I say legalize ALL vices, and let the chips fall.....Fucking nanny government.

The only people I've ever met who smoked cloves were goth kids.

I'm hoping this is only the first salvo in the Obama administration's war on goth culture. Looking forward to bans on stripey stockings, industrial piercings, and pancake makeup.

See you all at the big Cure/Tim Burton bonfire!

Sonic Rob wrote:The only people I've ever met who smoked cloves were goth kids.

I'm hoping this is only the first salvo in the Obama administration's war on goth culture. Looking forward to bans on stripey stockings, industrial piercings, and pancake makeup.

See you all at the big Cure/Tim Burton bonfire!

This is exactly what a friend of mine proclaimed upon hearing they were illegal

"Cloves don't encourage kids to smoke, it encourages goths to smoke, and they're going to smoke anyway cuz image matters to them"