UTMC

I know there's some VW folks out there. The wife is looking for a new set of wheels and the Passat has caught her eye. Unfortunately I know squat about them. We'll be shopping used, $15k or less, preferably more than a bit less. Something 2000 or newer. What should I be looking for as far as engines, options, mileage, etc.? How's their all wheel drive system? What sort of maintenance issues should I be wary of?

Thanks!

Ask Stiles.


From what I know, VWs these days are kinda crap. Only a small percentage of the parts are made in Germany, the rest is farmed out to Indonesia, China & the like.


I'd be looking at a Honda or Toyota.


I'd love to have an Audi A4 wagon though. Those things look badass.

From what I can tell, you might want to steer clear of any VW's. There are lanky Seattle folk that will likely to put a foot through the grille.

VeeDubs these days are mechanics dream, expect $1000 repair bills every time your Check Engine light comes on.

Passat is same platform as A4, same AWD, same repair bills...

If you must have AWD get Subaru, not as cool but close, and it you don't have snow at least few month a years don't waste your money and get a Honda!

I got a new Civic for $16,200 last year, 38 MPG and a blast to drive!

VWs are notorious for their bad electrical systems. And other weird shit that ought not to go wrong when they do ... I've replaced the Mass Air Flow Meter *twice* in 18 months on an '02 Golf with less than 75k miles on it. Have had the alarm system go wonky, the locking system stop working, replaced the exhaust system, and a few other random (and expensive) parts tracking down the mass air flow problem. And today the gorram factory stereo went out.

That said -- this is my third Golf.

But if I ever get another VW, I will be buying *new* so as to have a warranty for all the weird crap that goes wrong on them. I like my Golf because (despite it being possessed by terrifying space monkeys that wreak havoc with it) it handles well when it works, I can see out of the gorram windows, and I can see where the front and back bumpers end. It also has more power than any similarly sized vehicle in my cheap ass price range that I've tried.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't recommend VW. For what you can spend, you can probably get a less troublesome vehicle.

A good friend of mine went recently to buy a car. Came home with a Passat, from a reputable, national used car seller. Next week I saw her, she had already taken it back and gotten an Accord, because it was a piece of shit. If she wants more power, get an Accord with a V6.

Thanks for all the good info. We'll just scratch VW off the list then. Her current car is an 01 Forester which has some major repair bills in its near future. I'd love to go with an Audi, but the cost of ownership and initial price point are problems. Honda and Toyota are definitely on the table as is Subaru. I was also thinking of pointing her towards Mazda as the initial outlay is lower, and I've had good reliability with them in the past.

Zim wrote:From what I can tell, you might want to steer clear of any VW's. There are lanky Seattle folk that will likely to put a foot through the grille.

He's on our side. In fact he was just over borrowing our iron and ironing board to get presentable for a schwanky holiday bash.

Stay the fuck away from used VWs & Audis unless you want to buy your mechanic a really nice fishing boat singlehandedly.

Stick with Hondas, Toyotas and Subarus. Each of those have their specific issues but they can be prepared for and worked around, rather than the account-draining random Wheel of Failure you spin every month in one of the above Krautmobiles.

go for a subaru.. in my opinion the legacy is one of the best normal cars you can buy. and if you can find one with the h6 engine, go for it. I sold subaru for a few years, and have seen the in's and out's of these things. built like tanks, they are.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1OWNER-L ... 3ca7e319a6 < i would look for something like this.

Toyota is a good idea as well. My girlfriend has a camry with 120k on the clock, and its as tight as a drum. toyota is really a model of reliability.

if you go with honda, buy used. There is nothing more ugly than a new honda. not to mention they are WAY over-priced. come on, its a fucking honda!

I currently have a mazda, and i cant recommend them to anyone. The dealers are, for the lack of a better word, retarded. reliability seems to be an issue with mine, I have an rx8 with about 60k on it, it just got back from the shop, to the tune of 2400 dollars.. and needs to go back soon for another grand woth of work. its a great fucking car though. I have dreams of it being a track car in the future.

I really couldnt do the whole vw thing.


not to mention this guy.

erhm ....

In 1932, the company was reorganized as Nakajima Aircraft Company, Ltd and soon became the primary manufacturer of aircraft for Japan during World War II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru

I hate my duaghter's VW. She bought it used (97 Cabrio) adn has had no end of problems with it. It currently sits in my backyard waiting either a transmission or a crusher.
I personally like Mazda's and Subarus. Never owned a 'bru, but everyone I know who has one loves it. My 89 Mazda B2200 truck runs like a top after all these years, is super easy to work on, and the newer Mazdas are pretty sexy, too.

I have years of experience working on cars in Ukraine and here (first one does not qualify me to give this advice) I also sold cars for couple years before a 8 year stint am my fathers repair shop, in all those years I mentally ranked cars and Honda it on top of my list, not only for reliability reasons but because of driving experience you get. It is a bit boring but when you mash the pedal down it wakes up quite a bit, most of them corner like they are on rails! Stay away from any Honda V6, transmissions a notorious for blowing up. My mom's 2000 Accord approaching 200,000 miles, My wife's '97 V6 Accord we sold at 199,000 and replaced with Civic which is simply jangleplatz! I have an Odyssey with 185K miles (needed for work) and it's in the Transmission Shop, coming home today.

It makes sense to buy an Accord used but Civic new since they hold their value very well (I paid $16K for my wife's new almost 2 years ago and it's still NADA retail of $15K!!!)

My number 2 is Toyota, a model of reliability but not exempt from engines and transmissions blowing up, for years they warrantied the head gaskets on Supras, Pick-ups and Camrys to keep the public image in tact. Fair amount of Transmissions are failing as well, still far less than Chrysler or Ford. My issue with Toyota is that even the sporty looking ones are gutless and handle like crap! I had a rental for 3 weeks this year, '09 Camry and it was boring me to death! IMO they left the "good stuff" out to broaden the gap to their Lexus brand.

Subaru is closer every year, but still in third, new Legacy won "car of the year" in Japan, which is an achievement. With Subaru I'd stay away from H-6, 4 banger plenty powerful, and if you must have more get a turbo!
Forresters and Outbacks are prone to head gasket failure and Subaru does nothing about it even if you're just out of warranty, Toyota and Honda "good will" the cars with 100K+

Mazda is on the way up, and RX8 is not a good example, still years of Ford left the aftertaste that is not easily forgotten.

Nissan is nice as well, not as good as they were before the bankruptcy and French bail out.

I have to go to work, or I cold write an essay...

xtian wrote:erhm ....

In 1932, the company was reorganized as Nakajima Aircraft Company, Ltd and soon became the primary manufacturer of aircraft for Japan during World War II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru

lol..

MATPOC wrote: With Subaru I'd stay away from H-6, 4 banger plenty powerful, and if you must have more get a turbo!

Drive one, the h6 is a beautiful engine. way WAY smoother than the 4 pop, quiet.. about 220 horsepower (i think). verry naice! the only deal is you have to go for an older one, the new legacy's have the boxer 4. I'm not sure i would reccomend a turbo to anyone.. T's are usually trouble for the average motorist.

MATPOC wrote: Mazda is on the way up, and RX8 is not a good example, still years of Ford left the aftertaste that is not easily forgotten.

well, the rx8 is a mazda. . as far as the engine is concerned (being a rotary), you are right, its not reaaaly the same. but thats not where the service bills came from, the engine brilliant (also has a 100,000 mile warranty). I actually had some trouble with oil lines. i dont even wanna get into it. and i have some major issues with mazdausa and a few mazda dealers i've dealt with.

but of course. this could go on for ever and ever. all cars have issues.

I've replaced rotary engines before because rodents ate oil injection lines and that toasted the motors. If only they spent extra buck or two on making them steel braided...

As for the Turbos, the only "trouble" ones that come to mind are VW GTI, where it's not the question "IF" but "WHEN" it will blow up, usually around 80K and it's on average $1600 job.

I also have a Volvo 850 turbo, would not recommend to anyone without diagnostic/repair skills, but fun to drive and I still love it, new axle, O2 sensor, cam sensor, brake pressure sensor and few more random parts and bad electrical connections later

H6 is a bit heavy and because of Subarus divetrain layout it's too far forward (in front of the front wheel axle) so handling is a bit odd, also repairs are more expensive.

Just my .02

my '59 type 1 with bus boxes, rotated torsion leaf perches, and a 1385: a cheap Jeep.
But now:
My '91 Toyota P/U 4x2 with 320K still drools translucent synth at each 3K change. 3 litre 6 brackets 30 mpg on the slab. I'll never give her up, only refresh her.
Only perpherals fixed: injectors rebuilt. Rebuilt alternator x1. Starter x1. Many tires. Paint's getting cobby. Limber up a mop of OD or FB next summer.
Ha!

It is funny that you posted this topic. I just bought an 07 Passat wagon.

I love it. Black with tinted windows. It is not a manual, but it works.

I got it for 16K with added alloy 16 inch wheels. It had 44K on it.

There are some negative reviews of VWs, but I have an 03 turbo that has not given me any trouble in 75K miles.

I say go for it. Hondas have no character and Subaru suck gas. VW are no different than Ducatis, BMW and Buells. I did get a Certified Pre Owned warranty taking me to 75k miles. I am not too worried.

One of my friends bought a passat last summer and the thing didn't last a month. What a piece of crap.

I bought a 2003 Mazda Protege 5 a few months ago. It runs like a champ. However the car that kept going and going and going was the Accord. I hated it. It was a boring car with nothing sporty or fun about it. Lame.

I really wanted to find a Subaru. I like the way they look. However, I came to realize that their gas mileage wasn't super awesome.

My next car will be another Mazda or a Honda Element. I love that you can hose down the inside of the Element.

You should be able to find a slightly used car with relatively low miles for way under $15,000.

I only paid 4200 for mine.

Mazdas suck and subarus are lame. Hondas are the antichrist.


That is all.

A friend of mine got a Honda Element last year with some sort of sport package. Rims, etc. All blacked out.

Looks pretty cool and a shit ton of room. You could easily load a bike in the back.

motorpsycho67 wrote:You could easily load a bike in the back.

If you mean bicycle, then sure. As easily goes a fairly short wheelbase sportbike with the mirrors removed does fit, as long as you're not carrying any passengers as even the front passenger seat must be folded to make it work.

Still fairly impressive in my estimation, I might have picked one up if it could've been had cheaper. I always like the idea of a vehicle you can properly fire rockets from

/RM

gazza wrote:Mazdas suck and subarus are lame. Hondas are the antichrist.


That is all.

ahem.. my car is a mazda and my bike is a honda.. them's fighting words.

Blinged out Element is called SC, and Bling is all it is...

They are very popular in the scooter community, but only can haul one scooter where my Odyssey can fit 2 scoots and 2 adults comfortably, I can also load up any sport bike, but its a tight fit, very unlikely for the Element since it's narrower and shorter.

I was considering the Element because it's so fucking ugly, but it is gutless and crap MPG, same as my Odyssey. The Van is a soccer mom mobile but my wife refuses to drive it. I only have it because of my business, at least it has 245 HP 3.5L v-tech and I love embarrassing people at the red lights, look on the BMW owners face when I smok'em off the line is priceless!

I owned both generations of CRX Si and still have '89 Prelude Si, they are the most fun to drive cars I have ever owned! Before you write off Honda on the merits of Accord take new Civic for a ride, it might change your mind.

gazza wrote: and subarus are lame.

My wife's Scooby RS2.5 is not lame, it is teh awesomest. We're at 230k and going strong. When there's a snowstorm, it makes every other vehicle on the road seem lame. I intend to replace it with a Legacy when the day comes.

I like most all vehicles. I am just stirring up the pot. I was looking at Legacy GTs before I settled on the Passat wagon.

If you want a real hauler, you need to get a 1988 Astrovan, V6 5speed manual.


http://www.www.utmc-forum.org/pub/album ... ic_id=1072

Astro's rule!

Mine went to Florida at least a dozen times, with 2 sport bikes in a back or a gang of rowdy Russians.
At 250K it was driven to the scrap yard due to inability to pass state inspection.

Damn, you Russians are starting to scare me. It's like Red Dawn!

Paintball right?

02 Passat wagon, 160,000 miles no major problems, 01 Jetta Wolfsburg 98,000 no major problems. Both are 1.8T 98 Beetle 80,000 miles no major problems.
Mybe we've just have been lucky but that is just the current stable. Previous 98 Beetle, and 88 GLI Jetta. All have been great cars.
You just have to talk nice to them.

+ one to pretty much everything Matpoc has said in this thread.

I own two VW's, one with 198K, and another with only 80k. The higher mileage one is a diesel. No major problems. I do all my own work with a few exceptions. So all the allegorical evidence can be discarded as crap itself.
I've heard Hondas are crap, Kia's, Toyota's (and I owned a few of those in the past as well), any American car is crap, some BMW's, anything Italian or French... But then that's just what I hear.