was "hardware" now: pain management?

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:57 pm

was the implantation of your various pins, plates, and screws considered to be elective surgery?

my daughter broke both the tibia and fibula(?) just above the ankle in a weird fall last tuesday, and has been having a helluva time getting proper care by virtue of not having insurance. she finally found a doctor who will take payments, and now the hospital is refusing to work with her financially so she can have the surgery to implant the hardware he says she needs.

goose · Post by **goose** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:28 pm

I can tell you I didn't ask for it. They just ran me to surgery and the next thing I knew I had lots of metal bits in me. The bill to date is over $105,000 so you may wish to reconsider if at all possible unless bankruptcy is a viable option or you can afford payments on a house you can't live in.

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:34 pm

they've just quoted her 9000.00 for the hospital bill alone.

unfortunately, even if they don't implant hardware, she has to have the pieces put back together.

Davros · Post by **Davros** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:44 pm

sun rat wrote:was the implantation of your various pins, plates, and screws considered to be elective surgery?

my daughter broke both the tibia and fibula(?) just above the ankle in a weird fall last tuesday, and has been having a helluva time getting proper care by virtue of not having insurance. she finally found a doctor who will take payments, and now the hospital is refusing to work with her financially so she can have the surgery to implant the hardware he says she needs.

No, it was not "elective". My wrist would not be working now without it.

motorpsycho67 · Post by **motorpsycho67** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:18 pm

sun rat wrote:was the implantation of your various pins, plates, and screws considered to be elective surgery?

No.

There's very little room for discussion about the proper way to repair broken bones. If they have to be pinned/plated, then that's the way it goes and you'd be hard pressed to find a doctor to disagree.

sun rat wrote: they've just quoted her 9000.00 for the hospital bill alone.

$9K is not surprising.

My entire bill was about $122K, but since I didn't have insurance they knocked it down to about $30K.

xaos · Post by **xaos** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:50 pm

well, i elected to walk again. but, it was never a question as to whether or not i'd get a big ole titanium plate.

Moto_Myotis · Post by **Moto_Myotis** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:54 pm

It wasn't elective for me, either. I remember lots of drugs, and then some sort of papers shoved in my face that I was supposed to sign. Waivers, I think. And the next thing I knew, I was in the recovery room with a leg full of titanium.

You're story is pissing me off, though. What a way for your daughter to start out--$9k in debt! It's a real crime!

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:05 pm

it really isn't the money itself that is pissing me off, it is the way the hospital is demanding 3000 up front, before they will start setting up for her surgery. if they'd be reasonable and let her pay a much larger percentage of it out, they would totally end up getting all their money.

all of us together in this family don't have even 10% of that to spare right now. 2 of us are in uni, one's hours just got cut to part time at work and she will be in community college in the fall along with another one.

Sisyphus · Post by **Sisyphus** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:41 pm

I'd squeal to the press.

beck · Post by **beck** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:01 pm

my mom had something like this happen to her.

she has in irregular heartbeat, and about ten years ago give or take, she went to a doctor about it and he told her she HAD to have a defibrulator put in. she did. well some years later it went dead they discovered at one of her regular checkups.

basically, the doctor put in a model that was out of date, and not even the one she needed at all. but insurance said she HAD to have a new one put in *and common sense* but they wouldnt pay to replace it with the correct model since thats not what she had in the first place. we had to foot the entire bill, which if you didnt know is pretty significant with heart surgery... 95,000 later she had the right one put in brand new. there was no way we could afford it, but we found enough programs that it got reduced to like 16k by the time we were all said and done. it made me sick that they would not pay to fix the other doctors mistake. how were we supposed to know the difference between what we got and what we should have got?

basically what i learned is fight the system. they might not cover EVERYTHING but theres programs out there that can get it reduced by a very large margin.

+1 on squeal to the press.

dozer · Post by **dozer** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:06 pm

I can marry her and give her health insurance that way.

Sisyphus · Post by **Sisyphus** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:19 pm

Go to the press. Have all your details. Just the facts. Take the hospital to the mat in public. It doesn't cost anything.

MATPOC · Post by **MATPOC** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:17 pm

I broke both tibia and fibula about 10 years ago in a high speed high-side, was taken to Concord NH ER and was told I need plate and screws and they need to do it right away, I wanted second opinion, the second doctor also told me that surgery is the only option but he wanted to fuse the ankle. I also now had to wait couple of weeks for the swelling to go down before they could cut it. Ended up with a stainless plate and bunch of screws, they told me Titanium was not available...

No idea how much it was, insurance paid it the bill.

tumbler · Post by **tumbler** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:25 pm

TV200 wrote: No, it was not "elective". My wrist would not be working now without it.

+1

guitargeek · Post by **guitargeek** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:52 am

Aren't there laws against that?

Rat, this makes me furious to hear. I've met your kids, they're nice.

I've met beck's mom, too, and she's also nice.

Why do such nice people have to suffer so? For profit!

We desperately need a real healthcare system in this country.

I want to move to Europe...

Bigshankhank · Post by **Bigshankhank** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:45 am

Wish I could add something here, after my accident I was told it would be a long long time, if I walked again, unless I got the ol' Ti pegleg put in. Did it, nearly died due to a medication screwup, out of the hospital in a week.
Figth the power. As someone else said, what they charge isn't necessarily what they'll take, its called subrogation.

Vance · Post by **Vance** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:38 am

With my wrist damage in October '08 they initially were going to just cast it because they thought it was a single hairline fracture - but when they sent me to a specialist and they saw it was fubar in like 7 places plus a bone I guess you're never supposed to break because of the likely lack of healing - they gave me really no choice but surgery and hardware.

I've got my 10 pins, 2 screws and 1 plate still in there - titanium - all for the bargain basement cost of $33,000 total.

I'm with Sisyphus on this one - take it to the press. Ideally TV. Most stations these days have "community outreach" pieces that would love something like this - which usually results in someone ponying up for the bill, or at least pressures the hospital to back off on their demands.

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:29 am

the social services people finally got off their fucking asses and did their jobs (the first time she went to them last week they told her they couldn't help her). she will be able to have surgery. we are hoping on monday, but this delay might mean later next week.

thank you for all your stories, suggestions and most of all your support. i have been beside myself, just frantic and worried myself sick about what was going to happen to her. today was my personal deadline for cutting all these fuckwits slack, so it's good news that i won't have to turn into the mother-from-hell and end up in jail for it...

Post by **Beemer Dan** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:06 pm

Good to hear social services is going to do their damn job. It blows my mind how completely upside-down our medical system is in the US. I really hope that the new bill will fix some of this garbage, I wish there would have been a single payer option though.

That break hurts like hell, and it's criminal that she's suffering because of bureaucratic bullshit. Give her our best, and if it helps we can post up a bunch of xrays so she won't feel like the only cyborg in the world.

Oh, and see if she can get "if you can read this it's too late" on the titanium plate

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:34 pm

unfortunately, our family has suffered a lot from negligent lack of care. from my 2 year old grand daughter who suffered from a ruptured appendix for over a week before the children's hospital in fort worth would finally admit her(they sent her home twice), to the other daughter in severe respiratory distress in an emergency room for over 20 minutes without even receiving a triage (i went and got her and took her to our local paramedics who got her stable so i could transport her to another hospital).

then there was the daughter who responsibly went to our (no-longer) family doctor for a UTI. but they wouldn't let her be seen by the doc because she had to pay for the tests up front, and she was quoted 500 bucks. so she went to the ER after a couple more days, for a kidney infection.

my own mother died from a lack of care in this county 10 years ago.

so this? it's wrong, but typical.

and is one of the forces driving my education, so i can get my family out of here.

motorpsycho67 · Post by **motorpsycho67** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:39 pm

sun rat wrote:unfortunately, our family has suffered a lot from negligent lack of care. from my 2 year old grand daughter who suffered from a ruptured appendix for over a week before the children's hospital in fort worth would finally admit her(they sent her home twice), to the other daughter in severe respiratory distress in an emergency room for over 20 minutes without even receiving a triage (i went and got her and took her to our local paramedics who got her stable so i could transport her to another hospital).

then there was the daughter who responsibly went to our (no-longer) family doctor for a UTI. but they wouldn't let her be seen by the doc because she had to pay for the tests up front, and she was quoted 500 bucks. so she went to the ER after a couple more days, for a kidney infection.

my own mother died from a lack of care in this county 10 years ago.

so this? it's wrong, but typical.

and is one of the forces driving my education, so i can get my family out of here.

That sounds like an expose waiting to happen. I'd hit the local media with that.

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:28 pm

this shit has been going on for far too long for the local media to not be in on it.

i want to live to leave this county with my family intact as well.

another element to the situation that might clarify the maltreatment: my daughter's (broken bones) last name is garcia, as is that of the toddler who had the ruptured appendix. and this is texas.

MATPOC · Post by **MATPOC** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:15 pm

Come up north, Garcia will be as good as Smith!

I hope things get better for you, I can't add any advice since I never had this kind of situation to deal with, and hope never will, keep us posted.

Удачи!

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:07 pm

the daughter had her surgery yesterday and is getting out this evening hopefully.

also they have been giving her some really good drugs: her text messages don't make nearly as much sense as they used to.

rolly · Post by **rolly** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:26 pm

They have something against the Grateful Dead in Texas? I never understood their appeal myself, but I wouldn't withhold medical care…

Good stuff on the update.

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:24 pm

any tried methods for pain management post op?

they gave her tramidol (or similar) and she says it makes her brain mush but doesn't do jack for the actual pain.

goose · Post by **goose** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:28 pm

morphine, demerol, vicodin, percoset, dilauded, motrin, and I'm sure I took other stuff too.

Did it work? not nearly well enough. However, I can't imagine it without the drugs.

MATPOC · Post by **MATPOC** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:34 pm

Motrin (ibuprofen) and Vicodin. Vikes rocked for pain but sucked when refills ran out, made me very cranky for few days.

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:35 pm

i know i am just being a mom about it.

hell, i've had all sorts of physical pain in my life. but my first inclination when my people hurt is to get really pissed off because no one hands them morphine for it.

piccini9 · Post by **piccini9** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:13 pm

Keep in mind, different people react in very different ways to the same drug.
I took some oxy-contin for back pain one time, did nothing for me.
Demarol on the other hand, made everything OK.