UTMC

I know there are a bunch of knife/gun/martial arts nuts here so...

Ever check out the Cold Steel website? It's kind of fascinating and creepy at the same time.
Like sword porn, pig/chicken snuff films. Yeah I know the meat is already dead before they start hacking it up, but still, it's just... strange. I really hope they have a big Bar-B-Que on film shoot days.

http://www.coldsteel.com/

I like these guys more for folding knives...

WWW.BENCHMADE.COM

WWW.SPYDERCO.COM

...but Cold Steel makes some truly fuckin' awesome fixed-blade knives, and their swords/tomahawks/implements of destruction are really top notch, especially for the price.



--Jaeger

piccini9 wrote:I know there are a bunch of knife/gun/martial arts nuts here so...

Ever check out the Cold Steel website? It's kind of fascinating and creepy at the same time.
Like sword porn, pig/chicken snuff films. Yeah I know the meat is already dead before they start hacking it up, but still, it's just... strange. I really hope they have a big Bar-B-Que on film shoot days.

http://www.coldsteel.com/

Hell yes. From what I've heard, Cold Steel does damn good blades. That shot where they have a pig's head & shoulders, and go straight through the spine in one chop with a two handed sword? That was just awesome. When I'm in the market for some new steel that's one of the places I'll be checking out.

I'm not a huge fan of Cold Steel hardware, although some of their pieces are nice. Benchmade makes a nice, albeit generic, piece and is my everyday carry utility knife.

Emerson makes some of the finest, toughest knivery I've ever accidentally cut my thumb with. Highly recommend. Big, burly no BS folders.

I also carry a Paragon piece when it's an automatic kind of day. Artful knives.

I have 2 Kabar/BK fixed blades that will cleave a fully grown watermelon in twain without so much as unsheathing them. Bloody hell makers they are.

I knew I could count on you miscreants for some opinions on weaponry.
Almost embarrassed to admit it but I've been making wooden swords, you know, just in case I need to beat someone with a stick until they go away, and it got me thinking about maybe getting a real one.
The Cold Steel 1917 Cutlass looks like a nasty piece of work.

http://www.coldsteel.com/1917cutlass2.html

piccini9 wrote: Almost embarrassed to admit it but I've been making wooden swords, you know, just in case I need to beat someone with a stick until they go away

Call it a "wooden sword" and it sounds lame. Call it a "waster" or a "single stick," which are basically just wooden swords, and it sounds cool.

That, and ask your local Popo carrying a PR-24 on his belt how useful a big stick can be.

The Cold Steel 1917 Cutlass looks like a nasty piece of work.

That's the one I've considered picking up as well -- I've seen 'em before and they seem to be very well made (as with anything from Cold Steel).

Caution, though: in my experience, having a sword does not mean you know how to use it. Waving a meter-long hunk of sharp steel around requires some skill and training lest you perforate yourself just as much as the person you're presumably trying to kebab. Sticks are more forgiving. That's why people train with -- you guessed it -- wooden swords.

My thought on the matter is this: while everybody gets all hot 'n' bothered with swords, there are a bunch of problems with 'em too:

1) Swords are hard to find -- good ones, anyway.
2) Swords are expensive (even the cheap ones).
3) Swords are hard to conceal.
4) Swords are difficult to improvise if you don't have a sword.
5) Swords are obviously weapons. (With the possible exception of a machete, and even those are sketchy -- and usually poorly made.)
6) Swords don't have the reach of other melee weapons, such as a big fucking stick. (i.e., quarterstaff or spear.)

Swords are weapons for the elite -- there are reasons that historically, "normal people" fought with spears, cudgels, and farm implements... and successfully killed guys wielding swords on horseback.

Want a home defense weapon? Get a .357 and learn how to use it accurately.

Want a TEOTWAWKI/anti-zombie melee weapon? I'd suggest you find something with more reach and that's easier to improvise in your local Home Depot. Hatchets, sticks, hammers, screwdrivers, tile knives, chainsaws, pipes...

Here check these out:
http://www.coldsteel.com/tomahawks.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/spear.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/spshovel.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/sticksportal.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/brooklynsmasher.html

And, of course, my current personal favorite:

http://www.tuffwriter.com/



That, and go spend some quality time at your local "application-oriented" dojo.

--Jaeger

I'm a big fan of "The Shovel" and I know how to use it.

Who was that guy who wrote the "Book of Five Rings"? Beat another swordsman with an oar. Just pure badass.

piccini9 wrote:I'm a big fan of "The Shovel" and I know how to use it.

Who was that guy who wrote the "Book of Five Rings"? Beat another swordsman with an oar. Just pure badass.

Miyamoto Musashi wasn't it?


I have to disagree about the relative lameness of the terms 'waster' and 'single stick' vis a vis 'wooden sword', though.

www.knifetests.com is a fun site.

Destructive testing of various fixed blade knives.

He starts with peeling a fruit, then progresses through various tests, like rope, wood, and concrete, until the knife fails.

I've always liked CRKT or SOG folders. My fixed blade was handmade for me by a guy named Robert Baker but I think he died.

piccini9 wrote:I'm a big fan of "The Shovel" and I know how to use it.

Who was that guy who wrote the "Book of Five Rings"? Beat another swordsman with an oar. Just pure badass.

Heh, I'm actually going to a weapons seminar Labor Day weekend where one of the weapons they're focusing on is the eku -- the oar.



--Jaeger

Jaeger wrote: http://www.tuffwriter.com/

You have got to be fucking kidding me.
I know I shouldn't be surprised by what "self defense products" chickenshit paranoid people come up with, but really? That is about the most stupid concept I have ever seen.

Davros wrote: You have got to be fucking kidding me.

Nope, dead serious. And your incredulity only underscores my point. I'm assuming you don't think a pen classifies as a weapon, which is precisely what I (and the designers) want you to think. Really, almost ANYTHING can be used as a weapon if you know what to do with it.

Now, you could make the argument that basically the same thing could be accomplished by, say, a steel pen of whatever manufacturer. You're right. The "Tuff Writer" is just a very nicely made pen that will withstand a LOT of abuse. It writes really nicely too.

Now, if you think it's an ineffective weapon, you'd simply be wrong. It's the same thing as a Kuboton or a Yawara stickreally, just slightly more useful (you can write with it!). You don't have to take my word for it, martial artists have been coming up with ways to use little sticks like the pen for a long time. (Now, the "tactical pen" thing is totally a fad, but it's actually a pretty good one, and they're on to a good idea.)

Here's the thing: learning to use a weapon is useless if you don't have the weapon, right? I mean, you can be the greatest marksman in the world, but that's a totally useless skill unless you have a gun. The same is true for any weapon/tool.

A pen is small, lightweight, not (necessarily) lethal... and totally ubiquitous. I've taken those pens on several flights (domestic and international).

In comparison, folks (both cops and civilians) get all sorts of bent out of shape when they see a knife. I carried (and occasionally still do) a big-ass Benchmade for over a decade, which sometimes attracted more attention than I really wanted. (Especially here in DC with all the fuckin' security.) Thankfully the only blood it ever drew was my own.

A knife is still "better" (i.e., more lethal/damaging) than a kuboton, pen, or anything like it. I'll grant you that. However, having a yawara/pen/whatever is still a helluva lot better than nothing at all.

Also, someone is pretty much guaranteed to go to the fuckin' hospital in a knife fight, if they don't just go straight to the morgue. This raises both legal and ethical questions. The pen, on the other hand, isn't nearly as likely to put someone in the hospital, but I promise you can get someone's attention with it.

The point isn't to go armed to the teeth all the time -- if I thought I were walking into a fight I'd carry a fuckin' gun. The point is to have something useful that functions both as a tool and as an improvised weapon without attracting the attention of the authorities.

--Jaeger

Davros wrote:

Jaeger wrote: http://www.tuffwriter.com/

You have got to be fucking kidding me.
I know I shouldn't be surprised by what "self defense products" chickenshit paranoid people come up with, but really? That is about the most stupid concept I have ever seen.

I saw Jaeger's demonstration at DooM! last year of the tactical pen. I wouldn't want to fuck with a man that knows how to use it.

It's not the concept of a pen as a weapon that has me baffled.( I used to work with a total douchebag who claimed he knew 137 ways to kill someone with a pen. And I pointed out that really there was only one way, the stabby sort of way, but there may be a variety of places that may be implemented.)
It's the fearful, paranoid mindset that goes behind it.
I just don't see the point.

Davros wrote:It's not the concept of a pen as a weapon that has me baffled ... It's the fearful, paranoid mindset that goes behind it.
I just don't see the point.

*shrug* I study martial arts too. Why? Primarily because it's fun, but it's also potentially useful. I haven't been in a real fight in a looong time -- since I started studying martial arts, really -- does that mean I'm wasting my time studying karate? I personally don't think so, but that's just me.

It's the fire extinguisher argument: Do you have a fire extinguisher? Is your house on fire? Why have a fire extinguisher if your house isn't on fire?

It's funny that you look at it from the perspective that someone who carries a weapon is paranoid -- for me, being paranoid would be carrying a "real" weapon (i.e., a gun) everywhere I go. I have carried firearms before in situations where the likelihood of being attacked was much higher (e.g., sitting an overnight dispatch shift in a warehouse outside Marcus Hook, PA, for a company where the drivers hated the dispatchers and had a history of violence against us). Was I paranoid for doing that? I told my boss I was sitting there with a pot of coffee and a loaded .45 and his response was "good man." (All the dispatchers carried on the overnight shift. It was that sort of business in that sort of neighborhood.)

I used to carry a knife "just in case," and because it's a useful tool. Lots and lots of people on this board do it too. (Hell, it's practically de riguer.) I don't any more because I realized that, for me, carrying a big pocket knife causes more hassle than the potential defensive benefit. Instead I carry a little teeny knife that manages most of the "tool" jobs as the big pocket knife, and doesn't attract the attention of the Po-Po.

Even in my little Yuppie Enclave here outside DC we have gang violence (MS-13), rapes, robberies, and murders. We're a lot better off than most communities, but there is most certainly violence. That's just life. Therefore, I try to plan accordingly without being obtrusive, carrying a lot of heavy/cumbersome shit, or causing trouble with the law.



And yeah, I'm a little paranoid. (Can you blame me around here?)

--Jaeger

I usually do have a knife of some sort on me, because, yes it's a useful tool, It also has screwdrivers and pliers n stuff. It would never occur to me to use it in a violent situation. But then, I haven't been in an actual violent situation in a long, long time. And I do have all sorts of dodgy people coming in here to the shop. I guess that the fact that I'm a big guy, and by some accounts seemingly quite intimidating on first impression means I don't get fucked with. I agree that there are times and places where weapons are a necessity. But in my day to day life, I have no such need, nor desire. Even though I live in Baltimore, and work in NE DC.

Davros wrote:But then, I haven't been in an actual violent situation in a long, long time.... I guess that the fact that I'm a big guy, and by some accounts seemingly quite intimidating on first impression means I don't get fucked with.

Yep. Me neither, and for much the same reason -- being bigger than most and looking slightly annoyed most of the time usually discourages most ill-wishers. There are easier targets.

That said, there is ALWAYS someone bigger, dumber, and meaner -- and often drunk. He's the guy that concerns me.

(Side note: the drunk factor is another reason to carry non-lethal forms of defense -- disemboweling some dumb asshole just 'cause he takes a drunken swing is kind've excessive, even if he might've had it coming. Better to have something that'll get his attention and stop him without getting the attention of the cops/lawyers.)

I agree that there are times and places where weapons are a necessity. But in my day to day life, I have no such need, nor desire. Even though I live in Baltimore, and work in NE DC.

OK, fair enough. As you say, you're a fairly big and "formidable looking" guy, so it's a lot less likely that someone is going to start shit with you. Why would they? They're better off waiting for something smaller and less threatening looking than you to waddle by.

Oh, wait -- I'm smaller than you, and less threatening looking. They might come for me. Guess I should plan accordingly.

--Jaeger

I also just don't put myself in those sort of situations either. I walk away from the big drunk guy who is itching for a fight. 99.9% of the time that's that. When I used to get into fights, I realize in retrospect, that if they weren't situations that I created, they were situations I could have gotten out of if my balls hadn't been bigger than my brain, particularly when alcohol was involved. I know that random shit does happen, and that sometimes there is no way out except to fight it out. But those situations are very rare.

I guess what my point really was that I find that pen, and in particular the way it is advertised to be disturbing, and caters to a mindset that is far more frightening to me than getting knocked around a bit.
The advertising seems to cater to paranoid people living in fear of being attacked at any moment. And I don't think that's any way to live.

Davros.

I guess what my point really was that I find that pen, and in particular the way it is advertised to be disturbing, and caters to a mindset that is far more frightening to me than getting knocked around a bit.

Back to the top, I was kinda saying the same thing. Even though I've studied martial arts, almost always carry a knife, and usually have some hammers/axe handles/shovels at hand. I think the Cold Steel website, and the videos that are there and on YouTube have a kind of creepy, fetishistic, Mall Ninja feel to them.
This will not prevent me from buying a BIG NASTY SWORD from them, I just think it's creepy.

Davros wrote:I also just don't put myself in those sort of situations either. I walk away from the big drunk guy who is itching for a fight.

After extensive research, I have concluded that it is nearly never the big guy, 99.9% of the time it is the little guy with too much liquid bravado that has decided to fight something, anything. Those are the little fuckers you have to be aware of.

As far as weapons are concerned;

You don't need to bring a weapon to a fight... it always ends poorly. A punch in the dick is far more effective, less lethal and best of all, far less paperwork than using a weapon. People may call you names, but you won't be the one lying on the ground with your testicles in your larynx.

If violence is mandatory, as in there is absolutely no other way to diffuse a situation (most likely, that means violence is already happening), you have used every technique you have to de-escalate the situation, be decisive, use the appropriate amount of force and nothing more. In my opinion, there is never a need to use a weapon, the human body is a very weak, fragile, painful vessel, use this to your advantage. If you must throw a punch, unless you have a very clean shot at their face (and if you are in a fight and you do have that shot, the other party is likely too intoxicated to protect themselves appropriately and therefore should be easy to manipulate out of the fight.) don't aim there, every chad, tanned jersey shore wannabe douchebag who wants to fight will be expecting that. Punch them in the kidney, release those toxins, it takes about 25 seconds and no matter how much they want to keep fighting they will be curled up in the fetal position and turning green. Aim for between the ribs and hips, and slightly further around the trunk that you would expect. Or if someone grabs you, and you have access to their head, jam your thumb behind their ear and in front of their skull, actually... go ahead and do that now, poke yourself just below/behind your ear, and push that fucking hurts doesn't it.

Fighting people is for pussies and weak people...

The one caveat; If a cad strikes a lady. All bets and manner of civility are off. It doesn't matter if she throws a drink on you, slaps you or ever punches you. You don't get to fight back... (and seriously, they're just girls, they don't hit that hard, any amount of pain that they inflict upon you will be a drop in the ocean compared to the pain the can instantly be introduced into your life by someone much bigger stronger and more capable than yourself. You might not see us but were always there.) ...unless there is a weapon involved. Remember that ladies, if you bring a knife to a fight, you just got promoted to major threat and need to be dealt with as anyone else would, swift and decisive neutralization. (it's not as fun as it sounds.)

So... the moral of the story, those pens are stupid.

Lazy people need weapons, resourceful people can use weapons, clever people can use their bodies as weapons, and the smartest among us use our mind to win the fight before it starts.

Now, if you're hunting bears... get the biggest fucking guns you can. Seriously, they're not being macho... they will end you, because that's what they do.

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About ten years ago I was walking home from work and came around the corner to flashing lights, cop cars, ambulances, a firetruck. Onlookers, the whole deal. "Oh shit, my apartment finally caught fire."
Instead, it was the kid behind us who killed his mom's ex-boyfriend when he broke into their apartment, apparently to do harm to the boy or his mother (who wasn't home anyway). He ran him through with a fucking sword.

Pretty effective way to put an end to a home invasion, I'd say.