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Family advice wanted...

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:59 am
by Rench
or, Trainwreck Intervention?

So an unnamed family member seems to be a functioning-adult trainwreck. I could detail why this person should be actively on the paved-for-them, golden road to a better life, but I don't want to bore you.

In general terms, this individual was shat upon by life and others they were willing to help. They eventually found themselves in near-poverty and a miserable marriage living a thousand miles from friends and family.

Through much counseling (as in loving advice and the insurance-paid-for-type), this person moved back in with family, has an active support network, is in the process of a divorce from their parasitic spouse, landed a decent-paying career-path gig in their chosen field, and has been on the road to personal recovery for 18 months or so, complete with the dream job as of 8 months ago.

This morning, I got a call (on the paid for with the family plan cell phone) that this persons car (paid for by a family member with a no-interest, pay me back when you can loan) wouldn't start, and they would have to call me once they got to work, because they lost their phone charger again, but be advised while thinking of why the car won't start, there is absolutely no fundage, not a penny, in their bank account, until next payday, 2 weeks away. :shock: :shock: :shock:

Now, this is not a bad day. This is just another domino in the continual collapse, where myself and others, in addition to managing our own lives, have to run out ahead and try to set this persons dominoes up ahead of the inevitable cascade. The phone is always dead on battery. The chargers are always lost. The keys are constantly lost or locked in the car. The bank account is always empty. And the divorce process has apprently stalled; they just stopped doing the paperwork.

Now, I am no pillar of financial strength, especially after a hitch with the taxes, I'm back to paycheck-to-paycheck for a while. But this person (whom I love deeply, and don't get me wrong, I'm not writing off, I just have run out of ways to try and help), they make well over $40k a year, have no car payments, no housing or utility payments, no cell phone bill, and has the option to eat free, at home at least every dinner and all weekend meals. To add to the head-scratch, their job reimburses 100% of public transportation costs to work. They live about 3 miles from the train.

To my understanding, they are still sending at least some money back to the estranged spouse, or paying the rent on the old house or something, which I somehow cannot talk my beloved family member out of. But even the expense of that should not be causing this swirling black fianacial hole that is continually eroding the base of a new life.

So, yeah, in addition to the vent here, who's got advice? Anyone ever successfully sat down the brother/sister/cousin/old friend and corrected the error of their ways? I swear, this is not annoyance, or me getting tired of helping this person out, I'm just geting baffled at the continual failure to launch, when everything has been set up for success.

-Rench


Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:06 am
by DerGolgo
Get a full picture of the situation.
Loosing a cellphone charger, running out of money before running out of month and the car not starting, can happen to everyone.
Everyone can have a ton of bricks fall on their head, even on top of a previous ton of bricks.

If that wasn't it, maybe put him in touch with a financial counselor?
Some people need help handling their finances, that's just the way it is.

Maybe he just needs a confidence boost to take care of his business himself.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:21 am
by rolly
Some people just have nonstandard wiring. I, myself, have gone months without opening mail, knowing full well that it would have consequences. Your friend might benefit from some psychological help, but good luck telling them that.

Signed, a semi-functional <s>adult</s> trainwreck.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:47 am
by piccini9
I'm in a glass house here, so I won't throw stones.

However, if this person does indeed earn 40k, has very little in the way of real expenses, and still doesn't have any money, my bet is on either gambling, or substance abuse.
Whether this person will admit to either is irrelevant, that's just what the math looks like to me.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:22 am
by Rench
First, sincerely, thanks for the replies. I know this is pretty-fucking-far-off, and I'm not one to bring drama around usually.

DG, I understand where you're coming from, and agree entirely. But win the bricks dump on one spot like clockwork, it's time to find a new spot to stand.

And Piccinni, I've almost started to wander down that line of questioning myself. I think it's only the estranged spouse, which this person is ashamed of supporting, so they hide it pretty well, so it fits all the signs of some kind of addictive habit.

I just don't know. And it can go on like this forever I guess, but I'd like to see anyone become their best self. It's the stagnation in what seems like fertile soil that's frustrating me here I suppose.

And Joe, believe me, I know that route, and sometimes it's for the best. Not this time though. It's a fundamental "you go, we go" scenario. Ohana and such.

-Rench

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:43 pm
by Sisyphus
piccini9 wrote:I'm in a glass house here, so I won't throw stones.

However, if this person does indeed earn 40k, has very little in the way of real expenses, and still doesn't have any money, my bet is on either gambling, or substance abuse.
Whether this person will admit to either is irrelevant, that's just what the math looks like to me.
+1

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:12 pm
by Rabbit_Fighter
Based on my own experience with a loved one, I'm inclined to join the others in suspecting addiction. Don't have much advice there, other than to get him out of his parents house or he'll bleed them dry. It doesn't matter how great of a person somebody is inside; addiction will make them feel like a victim as they lie and steal from the people they supposedly love.

Maybe you need to have a discussion with this person and see if they'll fess up (they probably won't). If they deny everything, then you are left with only one conclusion.

"You are a fucking idiot."

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:14 pm
by Rock
Seriously, just call him out on it.

I have my own low opinion of the 12 programs but that first step is the one that makes a difference. Admit you have a problem.

It has gone both ways in the past but either way a win because at the end of the conversation you know where they stand.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:23 pm
by guitargeek
It doesn't have to be substance abuse or gambling, it could just be the continued support of the spouse that is the addictive behavior.

In a way, it's a gamble.
In a way, it's substance addiction (happy brain chemicals, relief from guilt).

It's been my experience that most professional shrinks don't dig near deep enough and are all too willing to buy into the second layer of the cover story at best. They get paid either way, and are trained specifically to maintain emotional detachment, so the stakes are pretty low for them.

Since you're already mid-intervention, I recommend sitting this family member down and having A Talk, perhaps just listening. A little alcohol (like a couple beers) can be a useful psychic emetic to loosen the jaw and prime the pump so that the flow can begin (for occasional use only). Defensive people often need a sense of permission to lower their guard and tell you what's really going on. Tears are a near certainty.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:25 pm
by roadmissile
The one huge step I can see that will potentially put things on a better track is talking this person into a decisive and final split with the spouse.

/RM

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:19 pm
by BlackSamBonney
as a recovering person my self, and having had numerous experiences with "addiction's" of all strips..and with people who are dependent on the care welfare' and support of others.
I agree with everything everyone has suggested....

how ever if the person on question has not made a choice to change, no amount of advice,support or understanding in the world will help...

It is incredibly difficult to let a loved one fall on thier face..but sometimes it is exactly what they need...just like you have to let toddlers fall down when they are learning to walk...definitely the money is going somewhere..it doesn't even matter where, really..if they are not willing to come clean...give them a hug..tell them you love them..and then add that you can no longer enable them to continue to destroy themselves, because it is hurting them and you to do so..make sure they have your phone number and walk away...seriusly..walk away.

if they do come clean...then aforementioned 12 step program will work, or at least help them discover the root cause of thier proplem..( I sense self esteem issues here )and go from there.

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:16 pm
by motorpsycho67
BlackSamBonney wrote:
It is incredibly difficult to let a loved one fall on thier face..but sometimes it is exactly what they need...just like you have to let toddlers fall down when they are learning to walk...definitely the money is going somewhere..it doesn't even matter where, really..if they are not willing to come clean...give them a hug..tell them you love them..and then add that you can no longer enable them to continue to destroy themselves, because it is hurting them and you to do so..make sure they have your phone number and walk away...seriusly..walk away.


Ditto


Person needs to come clean, or IMO they don't really want help, just enablement

Re: Family advice wanted...

Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:43 pm
by Zer0
Rench wrote:Anyone ever successfully sat down the brother/sister/cousin/old friend and corrected the error of their ways?
Yes, have a couple family members like that.

No, they won't be changed as long as this behavior keeps up.

You'll have to sit them down and lay it on them. No more. You stay family, but this has to stop. It's tough for everyone, but you can't keep enabling them, and they need to come face to face with the real issues and nut up (or ovary up, depending on the gender.).

There will be drama because something heavy is beneath all this. You may "wind up" being the dick, or they may run guilt trips on you, saying they're a huge total fuck up, whatever. Don't give in to the drama. This won't come easy--especiallly since there is good love mixed in all this.

But you have to put your foot down for everyone's benefit.

I also suspected addiction of some sort before I read anyone else's responses.

Good luck--this won't be easy, like it wasn't ewasy for us, having had to read another one of your huge posts written in that goddam annoying make me wanna punch you in the throat red.

oi

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:28 pm
by Drift
Lot's of good advice here.

Since I've only been on the receiving end of an intervention that called me out on my addiction, I can only say this: Every day I thank whatever deity that may or may not be, that my friends (who were a pretty rough bunch with problems of their own) loved me enough to sit me down and give it to me straight. Every day.

It's all you can do. Then it's up to them.

Peace.

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:46 pm
by flounder
Any kids with that spouse? If not, that connection needs to be cut off...and then see where they are.

I agree it sounds like further counseling help is needed. But, until the person sees that and admits it for themselves, you can drag them to all manner of counselor and it will be a total waste of time and money.

I went thru some anger with my divorce. I desperately needed counseling and all my friends told me so. It wasn't until my attitude got me the worst work evaluation EVER and almost cost me a great job that I started paying attention. Then it took 3 1/2 years of work.....

I'd say get the divorce finished and figure out how to cut off sending any money to the ex....go from there....guilt and anger can do HUGE amounts of damage...

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:38 pm
by roadmissile
If the cash is actually being sent you could go the subterfuge route and intercept the mail...

/RM