UTMC

Apparently this happened quite some time ago, but I didn't know about it until today. And well, it's pretty awesome.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UUFO8AGMwic" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yeah, that is an old one. The moon-hoax crowd consider it compelling if not conclusive evidence that humans never got close to the moon. To them, apparently, the nutjob appears polite and reasonable while Mr. Aldrin seems to be desperate to hide himself from the camera.
Personally, I give Mr. Aldrin credit for holding it together so long. He has had to deal with the jackasses and nutjobs for decades, he has to deal with while on the one hand being directly involved in one of the greatest achievements of humankind while, on the other hand, feeling a bit cheated out of being the first one (commander used to stay in the capsule on orbital EVAs, so with that procedure, he should have gone first), he had to live with nothing he ever did before or after coming even halfway close to the moon landing so few people he meets care about anything else, so this jackass was just a total affront.
But calling an old-school military guy of being in any way dishonorable, not to mention a coward, is just fucking asking for it.
Mr. Aldrin may have done him a favor there and walked right into his trap, but I don't blame him. Fucker deserved it.

DerGolgo wrote:But calling an old-school military guy of being in any way dishonorable, not to mention a coward...

It is truly sad that Mr. Aldrin was sullied by his participation in the moon hoax. Governments exploit good men and discard them. All to win a pissing contest known as the space race. I'm so glad we've limited the fortunes squandered on NASA.

Moon hoax, lol... I love this place.

happycommuter wrote: I'm so glad we've limited the fortunes squandered on NASA.

http://space.about.com/od/toolsequipmen ... inoffs.htm

For starters.

happycommuter wrote: Governments exploit good men and discard them.

True. But it's not just "governments" that do this.
Private enterprise lives on exploiting good men and discarding them.

happycommuter wrote:All to win a pissing contest known as the space race. I'm so glad we've limited the fortunes squandered on NASA.

Those fortunes "squandered" did good things, so many of them there isn't room on this board, probably not even on all of the servers that host this board to list them all. A thousand years from now, when the world comes out of the next dark age, the scholars of that time will look upon the 20th century in much the same manner we today look upon the roman empire or the ancient greeks. Just as we today laud the achievements of Socrates, they will laud the great achievements of NASA and write their scholarly histories of this legend of civilization. They would do this even if NASA hadn't put a man on the moon. But they did that.

happycommuter wrote:It is truly sad that Mr. Aldrin was sullied by his participation in the moon hoax.

As I said, they did that. They actually did do that. There was a while when I believed in the "moon hoax" shit, or at least pretended to do so because it was fun to be "in the know".
But the fact, as startling and incredulous as it is, they did fucking do it. They landed on the moon. Man climbed out of the trees, built boats, explored his planet, learned to fly, split the atom and went to the moon. Our species in a nutshell - this is an achievement on a scale so hard to comprehend I understand why it's difficult to believe.
But apart from the picture and film evidence, apart from how the US govt. couldn't keep the atom bomb designs or flight-plan of helicopters that Carter sent into Iran a secret they would never ever have been able to keep something involving as many thousands of people as this a secret, apart from that and many more things, the astronomers say it happened.
They aim laserbeams at the moon to measure how far from the earth it is by measuring the time it takes for the reflected light to get back. They have to aim at the right part of the moon, too - because only the man-made reflectors placed there can reflect the light.
In my town, there's a radio-astronomical observatory that was part of the NASA communications network and relayed Apollo signals to earth back in the day. They had to aim their big dish where the spacecraft would be, and that was the moon.
You can perhaps explain many of these things away (apart from the keeping a secret stuff) with hypotheses about automated spaceprobes relaying signals from a soundstage on earth, but what you cannot explain away are the footptints. They are still there, they don't look anything like something a machine of 1960s sophistication could make, and they are still there. Can even be photographed. Like this:
http://gizmodo.com/5837658/new-detailed ... /gallery/1
Yes, those images were taken by a NASA space probe - if they had faked that, they would have had to start the whole "keeping a secret" routine all over again. Sound likely, considering how US government agencies are acting lately?

As a matter of fact, there are a few things nicely explained here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... 00x450.jpg

If you accuse NASA of keeping such a monster of a secret so well for so long, not letting actual evidence leak out (all "evidence" I've seen so far was circumstantial and heavily relying on quite heavy and often somewhat unscientific interpretation), convincing the majority of people even today to believe them, you are accusing a government agency of a level of competence that I don't think anyone would even dare claim for themselves.
Also, had they faked it, remember what was going on back then - the Soviets may not have been able to send a man to the moon, but they had plenty of telescopes, radio and optical, extremely competent scientists and a vast network of spies around the world. Had NASA faked the moon landing, they would have gotten wind of it (unless NASA is a govt. agency about as competent as the nonexistent almighty), they would have gotten wind of it and they would have aimed their entire espionage and technological apparatus at finding something to expose their mortal enemy's fakery. As a matter of fact, they did monitor the lunar missions, and didn't even notice anything off-kilter there.
Remember, this is not the poverty striken, broken-down Russia of the early nineties, decades behind the technology and science of the west, but the Soviet Union at the top of it's game, actually leading the world in many fields of technology. Could NASA have fooled them? Unlikely.

Appeals to authority may be highly unscientific, but in philosophy, it goes. To paraphrase David Hume: Given the choice to believe in a miracle or not "...always reject the greater miracle."
If it is a greater miracle that it was in fact a fake, it's probably not a fake. I think it would be the greater miracle that they'd be able to keep all actual evidence so well locked up for so long.
All that quite apart from the very tangible evidence that they did do it (did do the moon landing, not the faking).

The moon landing is one of the few truly epic-great achievements, not just of our civilization, but of our SPECIES. Denying it happened is an insult to all human industry, inventiveness, aspiration and achievement.
I don't mean that it's wrong to dissent, to question and to voice skepticism of such a thing generally. But unless there's actual evidence, hard facts to support that skepticism, unless that is there, in the specific situation of the absence of good evidence, it is wrong. As I said, it's even an insult and I take it personally, because I'm a member of that species. I don't usually feel pride in things that I had nothing to do with, I'm not proud of my country, not proud of my ancestors, not proud of my city, not proud of the school I went to, not proud of any of that. But the moon landing is one of a handful of things that give me a feeling of pride despite my non-involvement. Yes. We did that. We, the human species, us bare naked apes, only a few chromosomes away from pigs or bananas, we made that happen. We stepped off of our planet and onto the surface of a "heavenly" body. We did it because we wanted to. No one came along and helped us, we did it all ourselves. We are fucking amazing. If we did that, we can do many other things - we are the masters and makers of our own destiny by an ever increasing magnitude. It's the proof that, yes, while physiologically unchanged, we have stepped away from the animals, we stand apart.

So stop dissing us unless you have some actual hard evidence, not just the fucking conjecture, willful ignorance of evidence and wanton misinterpretation which is all I've seen out there thus far.

EDIT:
I don't know why I ranted on like this, I only meant to post maybe a few lines and a link, but it somehow got my goat. No, I won't tell you my goat's name, it's already got him, it's not getting that, too. That's my damn goat!
And as I said, I apologize for reacting like this. An over-reaction considering the stimulus and venue, although not an over-reaction considering the topic.

Are you guys saying the Moon isn't real?

piccini9 wrote:Are you guys saying the Moon isn't real?

Albert Einstein's biographer wrote:I recall that during one walk Einstein suddenly stopped, turned to me and asked whether I really believed that the moon exists only when I look at it."

Though I heard it told as a conversation Einstein had with Max Planck in regards to Planck's quantum theory. Reputedly, when asked whether he really believed the moon doesn't exist when no one looks, he replied "Can you prove it does?".

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/yL3SEiUIThI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"I dismiss most conspiracy theories out-of-hand simply because I don't believe the people or organizations blamed are capable of keeping that big of a secret for any length of time." -my Dad.

oi. First-you can call a veteran, of any country, a lot of things and get away with it, but stay away from honor and patriotism.

Second, to validate the landing (really we should be past this, but fine happy "flat-earth" commuter) any asshole with a decent lightbulb can ping the sight now, and a number of others (links below). If there's an atrocity here, it's that NASA, ugly little sister of DoD that it may be, stopped getting network TV coverage with Apollo 14, people had no idea we still had a shuttle program when it shut down, and the future of space exploration is actually effected by the ratings potential of the fucking cardashians. On the upside, Space-ex just linked up with the ISS so there is some future, buts its focus will be on the advancement of a bottom-line vs. humankind.

Next you'll say the contrail is curved because the rocket is going into the sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Lase ... experiment
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... 21jul_llr/
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990109.html

DerGolgo wrote:

piccini9 wrote:Are you guys saying the Moon isn't real?

Albert Einstein's biographer wrote:I recall that during one walk Einstein suddenly stopped, turned to me and asked whether I really believed that the moon exists only when I look at it."

Though I heard it told as a conversation Einstein had with Max Planck in regards to Planck's quantum theory. Reputedly, when asked whether he really believed the moon doesn't exist when no one looks, he replied "Can you prove it does?".

I used to engage in this kind of nonsense until Mr Wittgenstein whacked me in the head with a fireplace poker.
Also, I think if you get "All Up In" anyone's face and start calling them a liar, and a coward, you fully deserve to be beaten like a rug.
Doing that to an old military guy is just plain stupid.

Second, to validate the landing (really we should be past this, but fine happy "flat-earth" commuter) any asshole with a decent lightbulb can ping the sight now, and a number of others (links below). If there's an atrocity here, it's that NASA, ugly little sister of DoD that it may be, stopped getting network TV coverage with Apollo 14, people had no idea we still had a shuttle program when it shut down, and the future of space exploration is actually effected by the ratings potential of the fucking cardashians. On the upside, Space-ex just linked up with the ISS so there is some future, buts its focus will be on the advancement of a bottom-line vs. humankind.

Next you'll say the contrail is curved because the rocket is going into the sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Lase ... experiment
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... 21jul_llr/
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990109.html

Oh man, whenever I tell people that I am working at NASA, the first thing that comes out of their mouth is "I thought they closed NASA". Like the ISS and all the gps sattelites just stopped being used and no longer needed anyone to check up on them. As Derg stated, the moon landing is one of humanities greatest achievements, and the biggest let down is it has been over forty years since we did anything of that magnitude since.

Cheers to that.

Bigshankhank wrote: Like the ISS and all the gps sattelites just stopped being used and no longer needed anyone to check up on them.

GPS is USAF, isn't it?
And there is a weird Amero-centric sense to assuming the ISS isn't a US project. After all, it's an international space station, built by weird and bedraggled foreigners, not a gleaming example of American engineering superiority. If America wanted a space station, America would build it's own damn space station, not hitch a ride on someone else's.

And people no longer being aware of NASA...they got the blueprints for the US Moonbase in a desk drawer already. Not like "Tranquility Base", but actual permanent base. I hope they'll at least manage Obama's objective of putting a man on an asteroid, that would be sooo wicked.

I love it how Buzz makes contact with the guys mouth as soon as he was saying "thief."

I'd like to get a screen grab of that moment, frame it and have Buzz sign it!

Camera catches Buzz @ 1:24 apparently taking his rings and/or watch off.
Who the hell was that guy? He needs a punch in the head just for wearing that ridiculous outfit. Hi-tops, jeans, and a sportcoat...and a face like a koala bear.

AZRider wrote:"I dismiss most conspiracy theories out-of-hand simply because I don't believe the people or organizations blamed are capable of keeping that big of a secret for any length of time." -my Dad.

Not only that... do you realize that most theorists are smarter (relatively speaking) than the mean of those who would be involved pulling off the conspiracy? I mean you have to be, to concoct such a masterful oversight of something as if it were a play. People are fucking idiots

Old news for sure. But, he's a fantastic actor!

I'd embed but the whole thing isn't on youtube. First time I've ever seen anything featuring Buzz besides the above clip. Just fun, goofy stuff...

http://videos.nymag.com/video/30-Rock-B ... %20Aldrin!

DerGolgo,

the US had its own spacestation it was called skylab, and we used it as a kinetic kill vehicle on australia.

GPS (and pretty much every satellite constellation) requires constant monitoring and more than occasional trajectory inputs from earth to ensure correct operation. And yes the AF is key to that, but we are far from the only game in town. I just pick on NASA because, well, its easy. I honestly wish we could use some of our massive economic capability in the US to make more ground breaking missions and the next generation of Buzz Aldrins and Yuri Gagarins...history making, boundary wrecking humans. (but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping they'd be American)

Rev wrote:The best part was that the nutjob tried to take him to court and the judge pretty much said "Yeah? Well don't do that the Buzz Fucking Aldrin."

Aldrin is on the very short list of people who should just get a card that entitles him to punch whoever the fuck he wants, forever, and then steal their girlfriend. I don't even care that he's sort of a climate change denier.

Yeah, you walk up to the guy with the belief the cameras will protect you, call him a coward after Mr. Aldrin's long standing service to our country, the risks he took as a pilot for experimental fighter jets, his career and expect him not to jack your sorry hi-top wearing ass? I would have hit that guy long before Aldrin did. I'm guessing the judge thought the exact same thing. Fucking tool!

Mk3 wrote:DerGolgo,

the US had its own spacestation it was called skylab, and we used it as a kinetic kill vehicle on australia.

This only strengthens my hypothesis of weird Amero-centric reasoning. Reasoning like this: See? We wanted a space station, we built one, forty years ago man! And we turned it into a fucking weapon! We didn't go all pussy like the russians and just bolt a machine gun on it, the whole thing a weapon! That ISS thing, that's just knock-off, we'd do way better if we only wanted to.

And yes, the Soviets did build a space station armed with what's technically an autocannon.

Mk3 wrote: I honestly wish we could use some of our massive economic capability in the US to make more ground breaking missions and the next generation of Buzz Aldrins and Yuri Gagarins...history making, boundary wrecking humans. (but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping they'd be American)

I'm with you. Guys on asteroids, maybe even Mars. The eggheads tell us we got the technology, they've been telling us that for about 30 years so we probably actually do have it already.

goose wrote: I would have hit that guy long before Aldrin did.

If I were a hitting kind of guy, I just know I'd be same here and all that. I don't beat up people who piss me off, but I know my patience would have been gone way, way earlier and, given comparable insults, I might have struck that guy, also way sooner than Aldrin did.
Which is why Aldrin was sent to the moon and the likes of us weren't and won't. 1201 alarm. 1202 alarm. The actual launch-switch broken off and needing to be fixed with no tools or spares. Still managed a textbook mission - guy can keep his motherfucking cool way beyond what's human.

Ok, we didn't actually use it as a KKV (on purpose), but it did crash into a few wombats and a kangaroo upon reentry.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoverie ... ntPage=all

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 867739.stm