Modern Parenting vs Modern Teaching: A Rant. In RED

[Rench]

So I'm on my way to a job interview, just pulling into the tie store (did you really doubt I'm that guy?), and the phone rings. It's the Renchlette's kindergarten teacher. Apparently, she got into a bit of a tizzy with another kid today, and the other kid grabbed her wrist, which upset her. The teacher assured me that the Renchlette responded appropriately (I swallowed my tongue to not say "yeah? How bloody is he?"), and it wasn't her fault at all. It seems to be an escalating issue though, so she wants to move the Renchlette to another table.

Stop. Rewind. Replay.

Other kid...not my kids fault...my kid responded appropriately...my kid will be moved to another table.

So first I asked the other kids name. I was informed that it would be "inappropriate" for me to be told that. I actually did say "do you think I'm going to go beat up a Kindergartner?" (set aside that I'm not really above this given the right circumstances, but I digress). I clarified that I hear a certain name fairly often at home. She neither confirmed nor denied. WTF?

So after that rough start, I tried to ask the psychology behind moving the kid who apparently didn't start it, and apparently by her questionable standards responded appropriately. She assured me it wasn't a punishment. Well assure me up and down lady, what're you going to tell my kid? And now that I'm really diving into this, what are we teaching the apparent instigator? Be a prick long enough and we'll bring you fresh meat? Break the rules and you'll get your way?

I really feel some of my father's blood boiling up here, but am I out of line on this? I mean, if the Renchlette started this, or is even being too whiney or something, tell me, I'll fix it at home. But if she didn't start it, why should she move? Just seems like instilling a victim mentality or something. It's like making a bully run laps. All you're doing is making a stronger bully.

Anyway, really, any input here would be appreciated. My general laid back self says "oh well, no biggie," but the father and beat-up grade schooler in me is filling a gas can and looking for matches...

-Rench

[DerGolgo]

Hm. That sounds odd, really. The Renchlette ok? Did they shove her to the different table? That kind of bs can make a kid feel punished, no matter what the grown-ups are saying.

I, obviously, don't know the kindergarten-commandant, and would hate to judge or anything. But it's possible, I think, they may figure that, if she stays at the table she's at, conflict may continue to occur. They could let that happen, but that would look bad and create a lot of work for them, plus it's their job to do something about it. Picking out who starts shit, talking to a number of kids, talking to their parents, potentially moving a number of kids to different tables, that's a lot of work, also. Moving one kid to a different table, talking to one parents, that's not a lot of work, and unlike the potentially unknown quantities that are involved with the alternatives, it's fairly easy to forecast how much effort would be involved.
Such behavior doesn't have to be down to laziness, it could just be stress and an excessive workload that makes people instinctively search for the path of least resistance. It could be simple conflict-avoidance, dealing with one irate set of parents is simply less conflict than dealing with two, three or four or however many.
They may, of course, have entirely different reasons, reasons that are actually valid within the job description of someone who's supposed to provide a proper environment for kid's socialization and all that.
People who are professionals at their job often consider the reasons that motivate certain actions of theirs to be too complex to be explained to the lay-person, customer or patient or parent or other outsider.

Your reaction, as you have described it, sounds entirely appropriate, restrained even. May I suggest talking to a few other parents about how the kids that get assaulted are being punished and/or segregated for having done no wrong? Without getting into specifics, more about the policy of that place. If they get enough concerned parents calling 'em and asking them "wtf are you teaching my kid?", they may change their mind.

Also, how did the interview go? Weren't you a firefighter or something?? You aiming for train conductor or astronaut now?

[Rench]

Talked to the teacher, and more importantly, the Renchlette. The consensus is that she's moving to another table. The teacher, who is within about 24 months of being closer to the Renchlette's age than mine, said outright that she hadn't considered that Renchlette might see it as a punishment. She just thought once SHE didn't consider it a punishment, everything was kosher. Renchlette will be moving to a table with more girls, which is where she gravitates to during their free time anyway, and is actually thrilled with the idea. I may have asked if this is like the Catholic Church, we'll keep moving the victims, but the bully gets to stay in one place? She rolled with that pretty well, considering her last name is as Irish Catholic as they come. I accidentally did crack the vault a little, as she said they're having "multiple counselings and interventions" with this other kid. So I guess resolved, my sense of black/white justice is a bit affronted, but my kid is happy, so I guess that's the best result.

As for interview, I'm trying to move to a larger, busier department. In the states, that means walking in the door with an application like you're right off the street. No such thing as a transfer in this competitive of a field.

-Rench

[Sisyphus]

I agree. Moving the victim to a place where they have to readjust is just reinforcing any negative feelings from the initial encounter, basically victim-blaming.
On edit: Kids have their own dynamics at work. I'm glad she's happy and things worked out.

[Hengry]

First. The title "Renchlette" has me laughing so hard on a public bus that it's triggered an enourmous coughing fit that has people fleeing my immediate presence. I'm not sure if I'm embarrassed or thankful for this. Second. I'm extremely pleased to hear she's happy with no future self confidence challenges as of yet. Third. Do you think it's too soon to teach her about pressure points? Cuz I have a few good ones for getting out of holds and she has a scary strong grip.

[Bigshankhank]

First off, praise Renchlette for showing the discipline and restraint that she did, and reinforce with her to be upfront with you and Madame Rench when things like this happen again.
Then, I would seriously seek the advice of a family law attorney IF ONLY to get a little guidance for the future. Suppose the teacher is paying you lip service and this bully never gets these "interventions", at least in an official capacity? I should think if this is serious enough to modify the routine for your child, there should be a record kept somewhere that this remediation is happening. Schools are typically reticent to apply the label "Bully" to a child because that shit sticks to them for life, and will often blow off necessary help and treatment for a child who would benefit from it because they don't want the kid labeled. All I am suggesting is an official record that something was done for this kid, even if they redact his (or her) name. It may sound harsh, but my son was tormented mercilessly all through elementary and middle school by the same kids, said kids were known by the school administrators for their behavior but were never officially sanctioned. I am not saying RJr will endure this for life, but who knows if the next victim of this kid will be strong enough to stand up?

[12ci]

glad to hear the renchlette is happy with the move. getting to spend more time with the folks you prefer to associate with sounds like a reward, not a punishment.

something else to consider: the layout of the entire room. if the aggressor and the victim start at a table away from the teacher, i'd be inclined to move the aggressor to the table nearest to the teacher so the rotten little bastard can be kept under the closest possible observation. but suppose they are already at the table nearest the teacher ? then, i'd keep the aggressor there, and move the victim.

given what you know about the prior seating arrangement, is this perhaps what happened ?

[DerGolgo]

glad to hear the renchlette is happy with the move. getting to spend more time with the folks you prefer to associate with sounds like a reward, not a punishment.

Indeed. If she's being moved to a table she wanted to go to anyway, it might indeed be a reward. A reward for standing up for herself. That's appropriate, isn't it.

Also, welcome Hengry!
You may wanna throw up an introductory thread someplace, so we can ... ask you about ... your pinkies.

[kitkat]

I'm just amazed what they call parents about these days. Moving to another seat?? Grab a wrist? Cripes when i was in kindergaten I pushed a kid through a plate glass window, playground-->classroom floor, and my parents were none the wiser. Of course it was an accident (the window breaking, but not the push into it) no one cried or got hurt, big whoop, move on. World's a freakin' tiny tim movie these days i swear.

[Mk3]

I'm just amazed what they call parents about these days. Moving to another seat?? Grab a wrist? Cripes when i was in kindergaten I pushed a kid through a plate glass window, playground-->classroom floor, and my parents were none the wiser. Of course it was an accident (the window breaking, but not the push into it) no one cried or got hurt, big whoop, move on. World's a freakin' tiny tim movie these days i swear.

As an adult and a former kid with about 20k frequent fighter miles I agree...BUT as a parent who gets notified over every gods damned thing..... I have to teach my kid to be an authority seeking pacifist or he'll get kicked out of daycare....suspension was already threatened once because he was YELLING! A couple kids had ganged up on a weaker one, he told me about it, I told him if I ever hear he ever saw that again and did nothing to fix it again he'd have hell to pay. The next day, he fixed it, and when they didn't listen to him he started to yell and knife hand until things were broken up.



I was called at work, and I replied with "did he hit anybody [no] good, I'm proud him, its what he was told to do". Apparently I'm teaching him to be a bully by having him break up fights with yelling and pointing. I then said to the teacher "you realize it is a completely reasonable assumption that I may personally point in a direction and send the parents of half these kids to go kill shit right?" They didn't appreciate that either. Apparently I'm a bully builder, I should join the military or something...

[DerGolgo]

good fucking grief ... so any kid who dares stand up to bullies is a bully? I get that some people may be disinterested in finding out what's actually going on and just like to punish whoever they get their hands on first, or whoever they notice most, but that is fucking ridiculous.