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HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:47 am
by Jaeger
I dunno how many of you are "watch guys" (or gals), but I've recently developed a real interest in watches.

The vast majority of them are either ugly, dull, overpriced, shitty, or a combination of one or more of the above.


This, on the other hand...
URWERK MARKETING MATERIAL wrote:URWERK founders, Felix Baumgartner and Martin Frei had a concept featuring Wankel engine inspired indications that they had not yet developed, and they suggested that their constructor Cyrano Devanthey could develop and produce a movement based on that.

MB&F partners Maximilian Büsser and Serge Kriknoff teamed up with independent watch designer Eric Giroud to design and produce the case.
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It's still kind've ugly, and I'm sure the end result will be wildly overpriced (for my wallet), but... it's at least a neat idea.

You can see more about it here. I'm not nearly smart enough to quite understand how that works yet, but I'm really amused that their inspiration was a Wankel engine!


--Jaeger

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:10 pm
by Bo_9
I've always liked this model they did -
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But at $99k I did not pick one up.

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:42 pm
by jae
They make some beautiful time-marking machines, but HOLY CRAP... if I had the money to spend on one of those I would've spent it on lots of motorcycles instead...
https://www.google.com/search?q=URWERK& ... e&tbm=shop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:48 pm
by Jaeger
Bo_9 wrote: But at $99k I did not pick one up.
JESUS FUCK! Seriously? I couldn't find a price for the one I posted above, which usually means "really fucking expensive"... but $99,000?!!!????!!?

Oh, fuck that. I have a hard enough time trying to understand paying $2-3k for a fucking Omega/Rolex/whatever. I understand they're made to incredible tolerances, often limited production, expensive materials, etc... and I don't begrudge people trying to make a profit... but effectively $100k? I'll buy a Tesla and a fuckin' Timex, thanks.

There are just too many other nice watches out there for a kilobuck or less (and I think $1k for a nice watch is still fuckin' spendy). Like motorcycles, I try to stick with the "if you can't afford to destroy it you can't afford to buy it" mentality. It's a watch. It'll get beat up. Get a ding on a $100k watch, though, and I'd want to suck-start my Glock.

All my cussing aside, the Wankel thing is still kind've neat and I wish them luck. I hope they find some rich suckers with more money than they know what to do with to fund their R&D.

Until then, I'll be wearing my $100 Seiko. :mrgreen:

--Jaeger

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:02 am
by guitargeek
I'd never get anything done, I'd spend all day staring at the watch...

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:34 am
by Bo_9
I haven't even worn a watch for twenty years. Still have my Snoopy Red Baron Timex though.
If I could ever justify the price of an Omega I'd have one to wear anytime I was in a shirt with more than three buttons. But it's just not going to happen.

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:05 am
by jae
I've been itching to buy an old Hamilton or Elgin 17-21 jewel railroad grade pocket watch from the '20s-'30s recently, and was having trouble convincing myself it would be worth the extra money (for better condition) for a $500 watch vs. a $300 watch. Of course I'm looking to buy something I'm okay with carrying as opposed to sticking in a display case, but I'm not ready to drop $1k+ even on something that's collectible and expected to increase in value... can't imagine spending the cost of a house on a watch...

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:11 am
by jae
speaking of stupidly-expensive watches, I remember reading about the Jacob & Co "caligula" watch when it was announced. Run supposedly limited to 69 pieces, and from what I'm hearing they're valued in the millions now... edit: apparently the model they made that was covered in diamonds retailed for $1.6M

http://www.jacobandco.com/timepieces/caligula" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

you'll have to do some google searching on your own for any other pics, I'm not willing to pull them up to grab a link on my work computer.
http://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/27/sex-sell ... lions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:28 am
by Bigshankhank
Yeah, but what price fashion?

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:39 am
by Pattio
I love watches, I have quite a few, mostly Seikos and Citizens with a few european oddballs. I just placed a pre-order for a second watch from a guy in Singapore who designs and sells small-batch watches that he has contract built and sells through FB, he calls himself Ronin.

I can honestly say I would prefer not to own a watch that cost $100,000. I smack mine into things all the time and they all have scratches. No way I want to do that to something so expensive. I also don't personally go for those incredibly and visibly complex skeleton designs like the wankel-inspired watch. I get it as a conversation piece, but I prefer rugged/simple to complex/cyber style. Of course its jewelry, so that all comes down to personal preference. I also prefer stainless steel to gold, not that I will ever be able to afford gold anyway.

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:11 am
by guitargeek
bndgkmf gave me a lovely gold Mickey Mouse Seiko... I think I wore it once.

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:55 am
by Jaeger
Pattio wrote:I love watches, I have quite a few, mostly Seikos and Citizens with a few european oddballs. I just placed a pre-order for a second watch from a guy in Singapore who designs and sells small-batch watches that he has contract built and sells through FB, he calls himself Ronin.
I've only recently started a "collection," so to speak. I've otherwise been wearing the same watch for about a decade. It's a great watch (wearing it now), and it does some unique things, but recently I've become more aware of some of its failings (not to mention it's getting a wee bit flaky, likely from the abuse its received).

I have a particular fondness for 24-hour dials, which really narrows down the number of makers I'd consider. I almost gave up and went with getting a 12-hour Citizen -- mostly because I like the idea of never having to change a battery -- but then I found a 24-hour Lum Tec for pre-order that I really like. It includes lifetime factory maintenance and batteries, so I figured that was close enough.

The problem was that the pre-order Lum Tec won't be available until the summer, and I was getting really impatient. Mongo want candy NOW. Getting back to the "never change a battery" idea, I researched the most "real watch" I could get for around $100 and came up with the Seiko SNZG15:

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Delivered to my door for under $130, Seiko automatic movement that's known for being reliable and accurate for decades, water rated to 100M -- and it takes the Zulu-style bands I already have. What's not to like? It's not a 24-hour face, but for the price and reliability I sure won't bitch. (And the lume on those things are way better than the shit watches I had as a kid.)

I found the Ronin guy and I like his stuff, tho. From what I can tell, the small "boutique" manufacturers are the way to go if you want a really nice watch. If you like 12-hour dials you can find a helluva lot of watch for a fraction of what you'd pay for an Omega, Rolex, etc., and probably get a more robust watch. For example, even the most expensive Lum Tecs are only $1k, but then you can get this:

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It has a Japanese automatic movement, a bronze case that patinas over time, and is water rated to 200M. It's an "homage" to Panerai watches, which retail for somewhere between $5-10k+.

Also, now that I have the Seiko, I'm really starting to appreciate the appeal of mechanical movements. There's something really pleasing about the idea that the machine on your arm is being powered by nothing more than your own movement. I also rather like the idea that with minimal maintenance it will run forever (unlike quartz watches, which will eventually fail and in 100 years parts won't be available), and I can pass it down to my kids. They're already obsessed with the fact that it actually ticks. :mrgreen:
Pattio wrote:I can honestly say I would prefer not to own a watch that cost $100,000. I smack mine into things all the time ... I also prefer stainless steel to gold, not that I will ever be able to afford gold anyway.
Absolutely agreed on all points. That, and as with the shown Seiko above, 99% of the watches out there don't actually do anything to justify the increase in price. They might be more accurate by +/- a couple seconds a month, but honestly who the fuck cares? Basically, you hit the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly when you get into the "luxury watches." The only reason I'll drop additional coin on a watch is if I can justify the expense with a function/feature that can't be found on the Seiko (or something along those lines).

As for the gold watch, I found a used gold Yes watch (the type I've been wearing for years) on eBay for super cheap a while back. I almost never wear it because it's too blingy and I don't go into an office any more. Trying to figure out if I can sell it, but it's kind've beat up so I doubt I can get anything out of it. :P

That said, I do really like the bronze watches. I never realized there was such a thing until I started shopping around recently. They're spiffy without being too shiny, and they get some really funky patina patterns.

--Jaeger

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:06 am
by jae
speaking of mechanical 24 hour movements, I don't think I ever shared my latest purchase. serviced and supposedly runs pretty true (I haven't noticed any appreciable discrepancy after a couple of weeks)

Soviet-era Raketa, 2623.h movement. Did a little research to make sure it wasn't a complete waste of money, but under $100 and it's a conversation piece. After my Ural experience (so far) I couldn't believe it was still working after a week. :P
raketa.jpg
raketamvmt.jpg

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:20 am
by Jaeger
jae wrote:speaking of mechanical 24 hour movements, I don't think I ever shared my latest purchase. serviced and supposedly runs pretty true (I haven't noticed any appreciable discrepancy after a couple of weeks)

Soviet-era Raketa, 2623.h movement. Did a little research to make sure it wasn't a complete waste of money, but under $100 and it's a conversation piece. After my Ural experience (so far) I couldn't believe it was still working after a week. :P
Yeah, I considered the Russian watches, but I couldn't find the right combo of features that I wanted in a watch that I actually liked.

Still, the Russian watches have some real points, especially the 24-hour ones. They usually put noon at the top and midnight at the bottom, which I prefer. For example:

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Not so keen on the Sputnik emblem, but whatever. I might try to pick one up eventually, but I've filled my watch-buying quota for at least a few years.

When I contacted Lum Tec I asked if they were ever going to put out a 24-hour automatic. They said they couldn't find a good source for the movement. At the time I wasn't aware of the Russian movements, but presumably they are... dunno. I'd love to get one of the Ruski movements and see if it's possible to customize it like a Seiko (Google "Yobokies" for more info).

--Jaeger

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:18 pm
by Zim
Pattio wrote:I smack mine into things all the time and they all have scratches. No way I want to do that to something so expensive.
I said as much to my brother-in-law as justification for owning a Timex, not one of the fine watches his boutique sells. He said I was not their target customer.

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:46 pm
by Pattio
While you can't beat the big guys (Seiko and Citizen) for value, what with their volume and engineering prowess, I really like the fun of supporting little guys. Another boutique watch I have besides the Ronin is a 'Broadarrow', a military-style watch made in small quantities by a small UK outfit called Time Factors

http://www.timefactors.com/coinfo.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They got in legal trouble for calling it the 'Broadarrow', somebody else owned the name, so later versions are called something else. They have a whole series of limited-production watches, which I assume are basically assembled from parts much like a Harley clone or '32 Ford replica, with a certain amount of bespoke design like the dial to make it individual. I love their watches, but prices have trended up since I bought mine in the early aughts and I don't expect to be able to afford another.

If you're into zulu/nato straps, I've recently been buying some from another one-man show called Shark Straps, good prices, fun stripes. They put up targeted ads on FB for %20 off quite regularly once you're on their targeted-advertising radar.

http://www.sharkstraps.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:48 pm
by Beemer Dan
Ah yes, Uwerk, one of the few luxury watch companies that actually makes pieces of creative engineering perfection and intricacy that justify the absurdly insane price. Like building an exact replica of the Eiffel Tower out of toothpicks, 1:1 scale. I love their pieces, but I doubt I'll ever see one in person and most certainly will never own one.

I love what they do because when you get past the price (in theory, because I can't even imagine what $99k looks like), they are absolutely mind blowing creations of micro mechanical achievement. Engineering Towers of Babel, the Mjolnor of horology (there it sits, and not a single mortal can lift it). If I had a chance to go back in time a thousand years to convince humanity of its potential I'd bring one of their watches as proof of concept that we are truly magnificent (along with the atom bomb, penicillin and Internet pornography).

Thus is my love letter to that which I would not own if given to me for free. Like you guys, I prefer watches that don't cost houses. I would live in a Uwerk if I could tho.

My favorite that I have is a Breitling Chrono Avenger. It's beautiful, rugged, elegant and mostly accurate. It looks terrible with a suit, but I don't own any suits. It seems impervious to motor oil and baby poop and sounds like a very tiny sewing machine.

My second favorite is a Fossil that never shows the correct date, would cost four times more to fix than what I paid and it's absolutely gorgeous. I should by a spare one just in case my current one breaks.

That company you linked Pattio, the Dreadnaught. That one is beautiful! I'm a huge fan of Seiko and Citizen too. The watch I was wearing when I got run over hard is a Citizen with a 21 jewel movement and I'll be fucked after twenty years and no maintaince it still keeps better time than the Breitling.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I'm ridiculously gay for watches and thanks to this thread I'm probably going to make some beautifully stupid financial decisions soon and I'm going to blame you guys.

My current "if I had a job" want is the Helson Skindiver Chrono. Or maybe the Steinhart vintage military diver. Crap, now I'm craving Ducatis too.

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:50 pm
by Beemer Dan
Oh! And Bull head chronograph Jedi watches too! Brb selling a kidney.

Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:45 am
by Bo_9
Beemer Dan wrote:Oh! And Bull head chronograph Jedi watches too! Brb selling a kidney.
Damn you! I was happily moving along in my non watch wearing bliss and now I will forever be wanting this-
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Re: HOROLOGY + WANKEL ENGINE?

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:05 am
by Beemer Dan
Oh for the love of rainbow sprinkled tits why did you post that? I need a job that pays well! Fuck that thing is gorgeous!