UTMC

I realize there are a lot of martial arts out there that are great sports/beautiful to watch/crazy fun. And I know some of you folks are into martial arts.

I'm wondering if there's a martial art of some sort that is actually useable in a real confrontation.

I don't want to go out and look for fights. Frankly, I prefer to just get along with people and mind my own business. All the same, as a suburban kid, I never really learned to handle myself.

Any ideas?

So much of it depends on your personal preference. My roommate took Aikido for 5 years, my other friends took a form of Ninjitsu forever and a day, I took Kung Fu for about 6 months. They're all gonna take a lot of dedication to get the muscle memory built up.

Search around your area and see what it offers. I'm looking for a school that teaches Tai Chi in both the meditative and martial art form. I'm pretty nonconfrontational and I'm not a fan of "hard" martial arts. I like the aspect of using an opponents force back against them.

Krav Maga is pretty damn cool but it's hard to find a school for it. Are there any arts you're interested in?

I think that the school is a lot more important than the art.

Most martial arts have got some great things to offer. Many schools, however, do not. A lot of them are scam artists. A lot of them want to teach you how to kick ass and are full of testosterone. The coolest martial art in the world is useless when it is taught by a dick. While Karate is the least exotic and appealing to a lot of people, if you find a great school, it can be fantastic.

I would suggest checking out all the schools around and watch a class. If you like the instructor, like the people, and think the art looks like something you are interested in, then go from there.

--
I started out studying Tae Kwon Do when I was about 10, and continued with a private instructor (and very close friend) until his death when I was 17. He studied other arts, so we incorporated Choy Le Fut (chinese Kung Fu) and gymnastics as well.

Since then, I have done other Tae Kwon Do schools, and did Aikido for about 6 months.

I'm a fairly big person, so I don't exactly stand out as an easy target to begin with, but I think that having some confidence starting at an early age with Tae Kwon Do, probably helped me in the way I carry myself. Aside from some minor bouncer duties, I have not been in a physical confrontation since I was about 12.

Good point. I knew I was leaving something out. The reason I stopped taking Kung Fu was due to the teacher. He had no patience with adults, the class was over priced and there was little "one on one" help. For example, there was a certain set in Mantis Style that I had trouble with but he didn't feel the need to assist me. Just got in trouble for being behind.

Most places offer a free class, even if they don't, you can always go watch like Rabbit Fighter said.

Tai-Chi and Ba Guh...two internal forms that will do you well. Takes time and dedication but comes in real handy. Tai Chi isn't just for old people. Its just as nasty and "real" as any other Art. My instructor is also a friend. I'm her only student so I'm spoiled...

Ba Guh has an active walking form and is very adaptable to whatever comes your way. Cam turned me onto Ba Guh and a form of Silate (indonesian martial arts). Now if only we had more time to work together on it....

I think part of it is also how the style matches your personal philosophy. Some styles, Kempo for instance, are very agressive while other styles, Aikido, are more passive. I recommend you watch a couple of classes and see how the sensei interacts with the students and what the overall "feel" of the class is. If you're simply interested in self-defense, don't forget good ol' boxing.

I train in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and it is incredibly effective in a fight. It is a kick ass fighting style, that even give skinny dudes like me an advantage! When most think of orthodox fighting, they think of kicking and punching. This is the general approach that someone will likely take who wants to kick your ass. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu immediately denies your opponent of their capability to fight on their terms. Their kicks and punches become highly innefective. In the meantime you have choked them out, unscrewed their shoulder, or broken their elbow or foot. When they regain consciousnesness, they're like, "what the f@ck just happened to me? I took a swing at the skinny guy, and now my arm is bent funny".

In what most think of as a fight, it consists of two opponents beating on each other until one is either knocked out, or beaten until their stamina no longer affords them the ability to continue. These fights can last for 5 or 10 minutes sometimes! Most Brazilian Jiu Jitsu fights last between 10 and 30 seconds. And if it is a fight between a Jiu Jitsu fighter and someone from another style, it is often over even quicker.

It is a smart individual's fight, rather than the largest or strongest. I've seen my instructor, who is about 5'11" 160lbs. defeat rock solid opponents twice his size. 6'1" 180lb. Royce Gracie recently defeated 6'8" 486lb. Sumo Grand Chamion Akebono in just 2min 13sec with a shoulder lock. You use your brain and leverage rather than strength and stamina. Although it will still make you pretty strong!


Check out these links for info.

http://www.armlock.com/
http://www.fightingmaster.com/legends/royce/
http://www.gracieacademy.com/

Hey smash,
As Red said, Krav Maga is very cool. I've gone and checked it out a few times in Southern California. If you are looking for personal protection-a great way to go. Very practical, very no holds barred. They market it as a street fighting system. Mind you, I've only watched, but looks pretty brutal. Not reallly about fighting, more about fucking someone up so bad the fight is over in seconds and not minutes. Signing up for this is actually one of the first things I'm going to do when I go to Portland, since there will actually be a school I don't have to drive four hours to get to.
On the down side, if you are looking to go to competitions to compete and such, I'd look elsewhere. They don't do it. There's sparring in classes, and they offer specific fight classes, but no organized competitions.
Oh, developed by the Israelis and used by their Secret Service and military, and those guys are kind of bad asses.

Wow, lots of suggestions! I knew you were the right bunch to ask.

I'm not looking to compete, and I'm definitely not looking to go out and get into fights. I just want to be confident that if I need to drop a train on someone, I can.

For some reason, boxing hadn't occurred to me, but that might have been the answer I was looking for all along.

Krav Maga and Jiu Jitsu both sound promising as well. Looks like I've got a bit of researching to do.

But of course, if you want a truly "practical" self defense technique, you should really explore Rex Kwan Do.

Rabbit_Fighter wrote:But of course, if you want a truly "practical" self defense technique, you should really explore Rex Kwan Do.

HAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My co-workers are looking at me like I'm out of my mind. I just spit Cherry Coke all over my computer!!!!!!!!

Make sure when you check into it, you are looking into Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. If it is just regular Jiu Jitsu it may not involve leverage or choke outs.

As a heads up, if you ever watch any Ultimate Fighter, or Ultimate Fighting Challenge on T.V., they will always incorporate some simple Brazilian Jiu Jitsu strategies. Royce Gracie actually dominated the UFC in its earlier years. They actually banned him from the events because he kept beating everyone. Boxers, Kick Boxers, Barroom Brawlers. . . it didn't matter what background or discipline the opponents had.

Krav Maga is also a good thing for protecting yourself, but you take into risk possibly killing someone or f#cking them up for the rest of their life. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu allows you to subdue an individual without necessarily causing permanent damage. In an armbar or Kimura or footlock for instance, you can take them to the point of extreme pain, without actually breaking the bone or dislocating the joint. This is why they are called submission holds. If the opponent refuses to submit, then at that time you simply increase the pressure and finish the job. It is a discipline of extreme control and capability.

This is why it is such a good sport for either self defense, or competition. It is rediculously effective in defeating orthodox fighting tactics, as well as allowing your opponent the capability to "tap out" before damage is caused.

This Summer in Mexico, a Linebacker from the University of Northern Iowa decided to pick on my little brother for being a Cheerleader from a "smart" University. I had only begun training not 3 weeks before, but I managed to mount him face down on the floor in a Kimura (which unscrews the shoulder socket). I didn't dislocate it, but he screemed like a little b!tch until the bouncers walked him out. We had free drinks from tourists who enjoyed watching "the little dude school that A$$hole jock".

Stick wrote:

"Krav Maga is also a good thing for protecting yourself, but you take into risk possibly killing someone or f#cking them up for the rest of their life."

This is true. Krav Maga IS not a 'gentle' fighting style. However, If the situation has deteriorated to the point of violence in the first place, I see no reason to hold back. I will talk my way out of fighting, I will walk away. Hell, I'll Run away for that matter!

However, if I can't get away or my wife or my friends are threatened, Then the Only thing to do is fight to win.

If the assclown attacking you or your S/O gets maimed or killed- Oh Well... he should have taken the first option which was to back off and leave you the $%^k alone.

Just for the record, I am not a violent person.

I cannot recall ever having thrown the first blow.

But I will fight like a cornered pitbull if I have to. There is no such thing as a "fair" fight.

Simply stated, my personal philosophy about fighting is : Avoid it if at all possible, but if it's not, HURT your attacker as much as possible. [/quote]

Let me throw a little Capoeira into the mix here. Capoeira may not be about killing your opponent, but with training it is just as effective if it needs to be, and you get to play a GAME while you're training!! What happened to FUN here?! Capoeira comes ready-made with a warm and open community that's expanding across the nation and the world! Both Batizados I've attended (Flagstaff ASCAB and UCA Denver) have been a BLAST. Nearly every mestre, contramestre, instructor and capoeirista has been friendly, happy and MORE than willing to help you out with stuff you might not know yet.

I think another advantage of Capoeira is the general improvement in your "vision" and awareness of your own body & balance. I don't know many martial-arts practicioners who can meet randomly with a complete stranger in the street and start a friendly sparring session that will begin and end with a smile.

You "Play" Capoeira, you don't practice or train in it, which says something about the Brazilian attitude that permeates the sport. You might as well have a good time while you're learning to kick-ass, right?!

Here's some good reading material:

www.carfweb.net/capoeira - a brasilian school's site with a GREAT history section on the sport

www.capoeirista.com - photos, links, resources

There are a few schools in Phoenix for you to check out as well. Most schools operate on a first class free scheme.

Axe Capoeira:
Axe Capoeira @ ASU - Arizona
Address: Arizona State University
Phoenix, Arizona
Instructor: Jay "Camara"
Email: Jay_camara@hotmail.com
Website: http://www.axecapoeira-az.com
Phone: 602.614.7367



Capoeira Brasil (I think):
Capoeira a Meia Lua
Address: 1549 E. Jefferson Street
Phoenix, AZ
Phoenix, Arizona 85034
Neighborhood: Downtown
Instructor: Corruja
Email: jdmc01@hotmail.com
Class times & Description:
Capoeira Tuesday & Thursday 7:30-9pm, Saturday 10am-noon, Samba & Maculele Thursday 6-7:30

Capoeirista girls are hot (so are the guys, ladies), Portuges is a sexy language, Capoeira doesn't take itself too seriously, and a good martelo to the head will slow down all but the most determined of assailants. Do not believe what you've seen in films (except Ocean's 12, that guy's a badass!), go to a class or better yet, a batizado, and be prepared for a serious life change!

Best of luck with whatever you choose!
Charlie


ps- regarding "usability" in the real world, capoeira teaches no forms and is entirely improvised. You're hobbled only by your own vision and ability to pick out the correct move for the correct situation.

pps- My ulterior motive, of course, is to expand the bank of motorcyclist-capoeiristas so that we can meet up for a thrilling ride and cap it off with a good spontaneous roda!

ppps- I'll second the Chicago opinion as well. Realistically, you're not going to be confronted with a kung-fu showdown in the streets. Most people know vaguely how to throw a punch, if that, so just about any expansion of your body's vocabulary and a modicum of fitness will leave you successful in pretty much any confrontation. I'm no pacifist, but I haven't been in a fight since 6th grade.

well i figure i better put in my 2 cents. first off, its Kam. and Ban Guzzi cant spell. As far as what martial art to study, it is a mix of the teachers ability, your own body type, and what you are looking to get out of it.

we already discussed teachers. As far as body type, some people are just built better for different styles. Ban Guzzi would make a great grappler, but a lousy kick boxer. Sorry Pat, I just cant picture you doing any flying jump kicks.

Next is what do you want to get out of it. Muay Thai is highly effective, very dangerous, and can be quite deadly. On the other hand, to stay truly effective in that art, you have to train a lot, and often. I'm friends with a couple of retired Thailand stadium champions, and while I'll never ever ever spar with them again, they are pretty torn up from their art.

As far as "most effective style" thats and unending argument. I've heard good things on Krav Maga, and Brazilian Jujitsu. I'm personally not that impressed with either one. Krav maga seems to be a bit to DMZ oriented and the last Brazilian Jujitsu guy who tried to kick my ass went to the hospital with a nasty bite wound a half torn off ear and some broken ribs. The one before that, I just hit in the head with a rattan stick till he stopped trying to fight me. If you are thinking about getting in bar fights, the last place you want to be is rolling around on the floor trying for a lock while his buddy hits you with a bottle. I have nasty stories cause i was a bouncer for 6 years. Back to body typing, I woke up on the sidewalk after getting kicked in the head by a Savate guy. They say I got kicked, but I think something fell from orbit it was so fast.

The best style will be the one you find interesting and will stick with, and train train train.

BTW, as Guzzi was saying, Im now studying Pentjak Silat, Kuntao, and Kali, but I stil keep up on my wing chun.

flame on

hi, i haven't been around for awhile, but ya know, free saturday night...

I will 4th or 5th or whatever the suggestion for Krav Maga. It was designed for street-confrontations, confratations with no rules etc. It is designed to protect you against persons and weapons, and make sure you are the a-ok party at the end of an altercation. And yes, it will fuck people up.

I'm planning an extensive solo trip to some strange locations and I wanted to learn some sort of proper self-defense in case some unruly character decided to attempt to take me out while on my travels. After consulting with many of my MMA savvy friends (some are really crazy fighter types...angry pieces of steel if you will), I decided on Krav Maga as the most practical for the unknown altercations.

Also, look into Systema - it is (was?) the KGB hand-to-hand combat.

weeeeeeee!