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So much for freedom of the road...{LONG}

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:29 pm
by brockster
From the Independent UK

Britain will be first country to monitor every car journey
From 2006 Britain will be the first country where every journey by every car will be monitored
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Published: 22 December 2005
Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.

Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.

The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.

By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites.

Already there are plans to extend the database by increasing the storage period to five years and by linking thousands of additional cameras so that details of up to 100 million number plates can be fed each day into the central databank.

Senior police officers have described the surveillance network as possibly the biggest advance in the technology of crime detection and prevention since the introduction of DNA fingerprinting.

But others concerned about civil liberties will be worried that the movements of millions of law-abiding people will soon be routinely recorded and kept on a central computer database for years.

The new national data centre of vehicle movements will form the basis of a sophisticated surveillance tool that lies at the heart of an operation designed to drive criminals off the road.

In the process, the data centre will provide unrivalled opportunities to gather intelligence data on the movements and associations of organised gangs and terrorist suspects whenever they use cars, vans or motorcycles.

The scheme is being orchestrated by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) and has the full backing of ministers who have sanctioned the spending of £24m this year on equipment.

More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network.

Chief constables are also on the verge of brokering agreements with the Highways Agency, supermarkets and petrol station owners to incorporate their own CCTV cameras into the network. In addition to cross-checking each number plate against stolen and suspect vehicles held on the Police National Computer, the national data centre will also check whether each vehicle is lawfully licensed, insured and has a valid MoT test certificate.

"Every time you make a car journey already, you'll be on CCTV somewhere. The difference is that, in future, the car's index plates will be read as well," said Frank Whiteley, Chief Constable of Hertfordshire and chairman of the Acpo steering committee on automatic number plate recognition (ANPR).

"What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.

The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained.

According to a strategy document drawn up by Acpo, the national data centre in Hendon will be at the heart of a surveillance operation that should deny criminals the use of the roads.

"The intention is to create a comprehensive ANPR camera and reader infrastructure across the country to stop displacement of crime from area to area and to allow a comprehensive picture of vehicle movements to be captured," the Acpo strategy says.

"This development forms the basis of a 24/7 vehicle movement database that will revolutionise arrest, intelligence and crime investigation opportunities on a national basis," it says.

Mr Whiteley said MI5 will also use the database. "Clearly there are values for this in counter-terrorism," he said.

"The security services will use it for purposes that I frankly don't have access to. It's part of public protection. If the security services did not have access to this, we'd be negligent."

.................

Sounds like another way for data to be gathered in order for your insurance company to increase your monthly policy punishment (invoice). The real questions is, who is making the money off of it?? Bastards!

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:57 am
by SidVicious
Image

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:03 am
by Ames
For Buddah's sake! Didn't anyone in that country read "V for Vendetta" or "1984"? It just goes to show you how much people are willing to give up for the illusion of security. Stupid gits.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:34 am
by Bigshankhank
Not to be pedantic, but was that article pasted twice in that post?

What upsets me the most about this is the state's ability to determine if a vehicle is licensed and insured properly when it rolls past a stop light or supermarket. That's who's making the money, insurance. Don't get me wrong, nothing pisses me off more than some dumbass who is too lazy/cheap to cover the cost of insuring their car, but the concept of the state mandating insurance is what makes Mr Hand turn into Mr Fist for me. I remember hearing an idea a while back (believe it or not it was a radio DJ who said it, I didn't know a radio DJ could say something intelligent!) about eliminating the concept of individual insurance in favor of adding the cost of insurance to every gallon of gas purchased by a driver. Thus as long as you are buying gasoline (or diesel) for your vehicle, your vehicle is insured. Of course the cost of fuel would go up, and personal injury coverage would be a personal decision, but the advantage is that noone using fuel in their car would be uninsured in the event of an accident. Of course this is like the idea of a flat tax, it has flaws and the lobbies that keep the status quo are too strong to let it gain steam, but it would solve alot of problems too. I am not looking for flames here, just posting an interesting idea.

Also, how effective are those license plate blockers? The ones which distort the plate numbers unless you look at them from just below level? They are illegal just about everywhere, but if you are commiting a major crime in your car it seems like small potatoes to screw one on for the getaway...

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:19 am
by Rench


BSH, I'm digging your gas idea. Extrapolate it out to the people who would incriminate themselves by complaining about needing more gas:

SUV soccer moms throwing a fit, but their monster truck will do the most damage.

Motrcyclists can't complain, because who really is gonna get damaged in a single motorcycle collision?

Econo-box Hondas get better mileage, and don't cost much to replace, and aren't big enough to do a lot of damage.

Assholes in Ferrarris and Vipers are likely to kill someone anyway, so of course they should pay more.

I'm digging it...

As for Britain, fuck 'em. They just got scratched off my list of places I'll ever go to. That is rediculous. V, '84, all of it. Many a great dystopian sci fi writers are either slapping themselves on the forehead or spinning in their graves like a rotisserie.

-Rench


Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:09 pm
by Jaeger
It really is a shame -- I love GB, but I'm starting to see now why my Limey brethern keep saying "no, really the US is freer than here."

I'm sure I'll go back, but... eek. Reduces my desire to ever live there (as the wife and I have discussed).

--Jaeger

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:26 pm
by Photo
The 'Big Brother' method of monitoring vehicle travel is frivilous and stupid beyond the point of debate. If the IRA can figure out how to acquire guns and learn how to make bombs with the U.K. militia in their laps, people are going to figure out how to conduct terror campaigns under the lame cameras proposed in the article above.

Using it to fight terrorism? Hell, Great Britain can't seem to figure out who stole and sold Alistair Cooke's bones at the crematorium.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4552742.stm
I'm sure with this recent news, U.S. Homeland Security will begin 24-hour monitoring of Peter Jennings' gravesite. They seem to have nothing better to do.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:01 pm
by DerGolgo
Insurance through petrol sounds great....but I think I see a little problem with punitive premiums. People who cause accidents pay more, up to the point where they are virtually uninsurable.
Would the lack of such a system encourage people to drive careful or would it just lead to an explosion in premiums for everyone (especially since "let's not get the insurance involved" would virtually disappear). Unless the system were to be appended by collecting punitive fees from the fender-bending idiots who think their car does the driving rather then them.
Personally, I think it's a good thing to have mandatory insurance for motor vehicles. A cage, even a motorcycle, is a potentially lethal weapon. If someone ruins your shit, you deserve compensation, regardless of how broke the culprit is. Your doctor, your mechanic don't care about who was at fault, they only care about the customer.
You do the damage, you pay the damage, regardless of how broke you are.
One alternative to mandatory insurance would be a pool of money, financed through petrol taxes, that could be used to pay damages which would then be recouped from the culprit.
Nevertheless, I think mandatory insurance is still the best bet.
Wether it is provided by the government or by a strictly regimented public sector is not a worry of mine.

As for blocking the license plates, some smart guys recently developed a gadget that can turn a face into a blur when photographed, something to do with fancy laser technology.
I suppose this could just be mounted close to the license plate for the same effect, but then again a cop might just as well use a handheld device to detect such gimmicks and then issue a hefty fine.

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:23 pm
by Bigshankhank
DerGolo, I wholeheartedly agree re: needing insurance, having been struck on more than one occasion by Aztecs with no insurance. One other alternative, and some states (Texas, oh how I miss thee!!!) actually have this option, is to post a cash bond with the DMV to cover damages in the event of you "ruining someone's shit." I cannot remember how much it was in TX, something like $50kUSD, but that way you don't pay premiums, and unless you have an accident you basically have that money sitting there covering you. It counts as proof of insurance if you get pulled over etc. Supposedly it was envisioned as a way to let rich oil guys out of paying insurance for some reason or another, I learned this in a defensive driving class when I was in high school so my memory has been blurred in the ensuing years. Alas this is untenable for the poor schmos like me who cannot afford to leave 50 large sitting in a non-interest bearing bank account.

As for the license plate covers, I used to work with a guy who had one a few years ago, before they were widespread and ultimately illegal. They work, unless your head were just slightly below the bumper of his car (89 camaro) you couldn't make out his plate. Not from the side, above, nowhere but low. I would be interested to see how this would be applied to facial recognition distortion, obviously a different technology.

And as for the terrorists, how many miles of unpaved, unregulated roads are there for them to move about on? Again back in TX you could take a sturdy mountain bike anywhere in most cities without using paved roadways...

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:21 pm
by brockster
Bigshankhank wrote:Not to be pedantic, but was that article pasted twice in that post?
Fixified, sorry!

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:13 am
by rolly
This crap must be contagious. See this post in headline news. The usa wants to do the same thing.
Wheres my tinfoil hat...

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:52 pm
by Amazon
Gee, couple this with what automakers such as Ford, GM, Honda, and Toyota, have done and we'll have nearly no privacy on the roads. Their are already nearly 30 million Americans are driving vehicles that contain a little silver box known as an EDR, or electronic data recorder. I don't think any motorcycle manufacturers have found any room to sneak one of these on board yet...thank goodness.

These EDR's used to only record data about airbag deployment and seat belt use in the last five seconds of a crash. However, they are now recording speed, and whether you were braking or accelerating during this time frame as well. These boxes have been used to convict people in court and insurance companies are very interested in obtaining the data prior to approving any claims. I understand that parents can even buy them to install in their teens vehicles....the data including time of day, speed, and mileage is transmitted back to the parents computers.

In a few more years, the insurance companies will make sure that every new vehicle on the road has one of these handy little spys onboard...and probably expand its capabilities. I don't know if it is an easy task to remove or disconnect these, but am sure the care companies didn't make it too simple. It certainly seems like Big Brother and the money behind him are always one step ahead of the rest of the world.