How is the Passat?

MATPOC · Post by **MATPOC** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:52 am

I can't believe you put Honda, Toyota and Kia in the same sentence! What's next, gonna buy in to the Hyndai hype? They were OK cars when they were $5K new, you drove it till it broke and threw it away, now they cost as mush as premium import but are still a cheap brew.

Diesel Dubs are OK in my book, last I remember they were all German made, but somehow I don't think it's true anymore. My local VW guru bought a new TDI Golf couple years back and with few mods it's fester than 1.8T Golf still getting 50 MPG.

Pattio · Post by **Pattio** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:18 am

MATPOC wrote:I can't believe you put Honda, Toyota and Kia in the same sentence!

I think what he was actually saying is that, at one time or another, he's heard everything called crap- which is human nature: complaints travel far more easily than success stories. Which leads to a paradox of service: mechanics see mostly failures, because stuff that doesn't fail doesn't get brought to them. What this means to me is that you should take it very seriously when a mechanic says "I made a lot of money off of those".

Sisyphus · Post by **Sisyphus** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:39 am

Yes, that's what I was getting at.

I have heard horror stories about some VW's. I know someone who has a Jetta wagon with heated seats--those heated seats were the subject of a recall because they were starting fires, which they did in her car. There are also some electrical gremlins in some particular models, but for the most part no specific model has specific problems. They seem to be overall good cars with a few bad apples. Neither of my cars has given me any trouble that any other car would not. Some vee dubs can treat you really well, some can really beat the owners up. Just like any other car.

You pays your money and you take your chances.

Consumer Reports has good reviews of used cars and I seem to recall that the Honda Accord was the most reliable for many years. I myself have been partial to Toyotas, but thats because I've owned Celicas and a Landcruiser.
I only own the diesel VW ( a 99 and made in Mexico, BTW) because my wife really wanted one; when we needed a wagon for an expanding family the VW was affordable and we had been pleased with the first car's reliability. I don't consider myself a VW nut, but I'm happy with them. Someday something better will come along that I can afford, I'm sure. Well, I hope so anyway.

Bigshankhank · Post by **Bigshankhank** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:42 am

Well hopefully the TDIs are better than the gas models, I showed my wife this thread as she has been jonesing for a new car and wanted a diesel Jetta, after reading most of the above she is kinda heartsick about VWs now. As for my daughter's car, well it does have 190k so maybe a bad tranny isn't too out of the park.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:46 am

Experience from driving and dispatching in the courier business for over 6 years:

1) Buy Honda or Toyota -- it's what the professionals buy when they buy cars. Period. You can try to spin it any way you want, but bang-for-buck, the best value in terms of reliability and fuel efficiency is between these two manufacturers. I had HUNDREDS of guys on the road every day -- each driving their own vehicles -- and the Honda/Toyota guys had fewer mechanical problems, had better gas milage, and generally made more money.

2) Subarus are great but they eat transmissions when pushed to extremes (e.g., 60k-mile years consistently).

3) American cars suck; American trucks and full-size vans, on the other hand, do ok. Still better off with a Toyota truck if you can find one.

I had a guy with over 1,000,000 on his Honda Accord. Original drivetrain and all -- original MUFFLER. Car never sat still long enough to rust. He drove it to the dealer to trade it in where they used it as a sales promo -- you'd never know the car had that many miles on it. Take care of 'em and the Hondas will last damn near forever.

--Jaeger

Sisyphus · Post by **Sisyphus** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:53 am

I know a guy who races a BMW 2002 with the original motor and drivetrain. He places in the top four in his class consistently. The car has over 200,000 miles on aforementioned components. No shit.

And the TDI's are better than the gassers, IMO. 48mpg here. Just as long as they're driven right, they're good cars.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:09 am

Sisyphus wrote: And the TDI's are better than the gassers, IMO. 48mpg here. Just as long as they're driven right, they're good cars.

I'm REALLY curious about the German diesel cars -- it's a fuckin' crime that Yankees are so f'ing biased against diesel. It's dumb. They're inherently more fuel efficient, if I understand correctly, and only bullshit regulations and ignorance keep us from getting more diesel cars.

--Jaeger

Sisyphus · Post by **Sisyphus** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:38 am

Jaeger wrote:
Sisyphus wrote: And the TDI's are better than the gassers, IMO. 48mpg here. Just as long as they're driven right, they're good cars.
I'm REALLY curious about the German diesel cars -- it's a fuckin' crime that Yankees are so f'ing biased against diesel. It's dumb. They're inherently more fuel efficient, if I understand correctly, and only bullshit regulations and ignorance keep us from getting more diesel cars.

--Jaeger

Diesel is more thermally efficient. That means more heat energy from internal combustion is actually used to transmit power to move the car. Basically. Diesel's first engine was actually designed to be used with peanut oil, believe it or not.

I agree with you that the ban on importation of diesel engines in a car platform is stupid, but that's because of protectionism, any way you slice it. Diesel cars probably are guilty of more particulate emissions and that's a good reason to restrict their numbers but they're getting better.
Last week I was in Costa Rica and it seemed like EVERYTHING there ran on diesel. Some realllly sweet old Landcruisers, Rovers, but more modern vehicles too. Most of the bikes there were very small displacement and I didn't see much that was very exciting in a bike-sense, but I got the impression that the country's overall fuel consumption was pretty low.

UndertheGun · Post by **UndertheGun** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:45 am

VW auto missions are to be avoided like the plague. My sister drives around the 99.5 golf my mother forced upon her and I wouldn't be surprised if it fails soon. Around 80k miles on the car.
A TDI is a good option or as has been said, any 4 banger Honda or Toyota.

motorpsycho67 · Post by **motorpsycho67** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:23 pm

Jaeger wrote:it's a fuckin' crime that Yankees are so f'ing biased against diesel. It's dumb.

Sooooo, you don't mind being behind an old yellow school bus at the light? Or one of those powerstroke diesel duallys?

Clean diesel technology on the other hand is great. Old diesel, not so much.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:43 pm

motorpsycho67 wrote: Clean diesel technology on the other hand is great. Old diesel, not so much.

I'll grant you that. I spent enough time in bus stations as a kid that I have no misconceptions about how "clean" the old diesel is. However, as you point out, the new clean diesel is pretty good shit -- and we're missing most of it 'cause we're stuck in the mindset of 1978.

--Jaeger

MATPOC · Post by **MATPOC** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:24 pm

The reason most diesels smoke and smell is that you gotta run them rich to make them peppier in city traffic, there is always a cloud of black smoke coming from the fire truck a school or city bus, I'm pretty sure thy are exempt from emissions and do not run catalytic converters, where smaller box trucks have strangest emission control systems I ever laid eyes on just to be on the road.

Diesel cars are not banned but they do not pass emissions in most states so they are not widely imported, RI is still a diesel friendly state.

I have several friends running their cars on Vegie oil, it was plentiful once and now became scarce, there are even people here now that refine and sell it!

On the subject of buying cars, went to a Honda dealer today, might trade our Civic for a Fit... always wanted one

Zim · Post by **Zim** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:54 pm

MATPOC wrote: I have several friends running their cars on Vegie oil, it was plentiful once and now became scarce, there are even people here now that refine and sell it!

There are even people STEALING IT.

As oil prices soar, restaurant grease theft rises

stiles · Post by **stiles** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:32 am

Sisyphus wrote: I know someone who has a Jetta wagon with heated seats--those heated seats were the subject of a recall because they were starting fires, which they did in her car. There are also some electrical gremlins in some particular models, but for the most part no specific model has specific problems. They seem to be overall good cars with a few bad apples. Neither of my cars has given me any trouble that any other car would not. Some vee dubs can treat you really well, some can really beat the owners up. Just like any other car.

That bolded part up there has very much not been my experience. After 6 years of owning my shop and operating other people's shops for them for several years after that, I could tell someone who owned a 1998-2005 VW with a high degree of accuracy not only what had gone wrong with their car in the past but what was wrong with it now.

Here's what went wrong on most of the ones I worked on:

multiple power window failures
multiple broken glovebox doors
multiple coil pack failures (major fire hazard - recall)
seat heater failures (major fire hazard - recall)
hazard switch failures (major fire hazard - recall)
multiple sunroof sunshield failures
multiple oil pan failures
multiple seat release failures (in 2 door cars)
multiple check engine light on failures
defective MAF sensors
defective coolant temp sensor failures
engine oil sludging in 1.8Ts causing engine failure
multiple headlight failures on new beetles
premature automatic transmission failure
premature clutch failure

Out of those 15 issues listed, the chances were quite good that any particular VW coming into my shop during those years suffered from at least six of 'em, currently or previously.

In this context, "multiple" means the same part failed on the same car for the same owner several times, I.E. most of the GTIs went through three to eight power window regulators over the span of 6 years, along with three glovebox doors, five to 30 check engine light illuminations and resulting failed emissions tests, six or seven sunroof sunshield repairs, etc etc.

...and mechanics don't just see the broken ones, since plenty of Civics came through my shop every 3 months like clockwork for oil changes, brake pads, tires and other normal wear items.

IMHO for some years there VW occasionally made a good one. Sounds like yours is one of the good ones. Congrats!

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How is the Passat?