School spying on students at home

[Jaeger]

Niiiiiiice.

Remember, people, it's all about protecting the children.

From whom or what I'm not sure, but it's definitely to protect the children. Yeah.



--Jaeger

[Zim]

I can partly side with the school as the computers are school property.

But remotely monitoring the laptops? And in doing so, use the webcam so see what the students are doing? No, not cool at all. I wonder if they also have key-loggers.

That kind of shit creeps me out. My iMac has a built-in webcam. I know it's on when the little green light next to it is lit. Or do I know it's on by the green light? Not to sound paranoid, but I've taken to covering it up with a post-it note.

[rolly]

Creepy and unconscionable but not entirely surprising with the prevailing attitude to privacy and surveillance today.

[12ci]

this gives more fuel to the homeschoolers, irrespective of how it all falls out.

[DerGolgo]

Well, if they had a photo taken inside the house...and it came from the webcam (I'm sure IT forensics experts could figure out whether or not that is the case)...not really a bit question whether they were spying or not. Unless the kid was using the webcam to "cyber" with someone sitting in the school library or something. In which case I can see inappropriate use of school property.

However, WHAT THE FUCK makes what a kid does out of school, when it doesn't affect his performance or behavior in school, the school's business???

[roadmissile]

Lower Merion School District
Watching you fap

Because really, what else would a webcam capture that's inappropriate?

If I ever make the mistake of breeding, I have a feeling I'll be having a decent amount of high volume discussions with school administrators...

/RM

[Flatline]

Super fucking creepy. I have a feeling some people are going to lose jobs over this.

[Zim]

Lower Merion School District
Watching you fap

Because really, what else would a webcam capture that's inappropriate?

If I ever make the mistake of breeding, I have a feeling I'll be having a decent amount of high volume discussions with school administrators...

/RM

If the webcams were turned on surreptitiously? Anything captured, from a student sitting in front of the computer just doing homework, to fappers, to an empty room, would be inappropriate.

[Sisyphus]

It's old news that the NSA or whomever can listen to whatever's going on in the room any telephone is in. It doesn't have to be off the hook for someone to listen in.
Same goes for cell phones, probably.
Just because the little green light isn't on on your iMac doesn't mean they aren't watching. You. Your loved ones, what you do at work, what you do at home, what you say. If they could figure out what you were thinking, they'd be into that too.

[rolly]

LMSD response to 'invasion of privacy' allegation

Updated 2/18/10 5:26 PM

Dear LMSD Community,

Last year, our district became one of the first school systems in the United States to provide laptop computers to all high school students. This initiative has been well received and has provided educational benefits to our students.

The District is dedicated to protecting and promoting student privacy. The laptops do contain a security feature intended to track lost, stolen and missing laptops. This feature has been deactivated effective today.

The following questions and answers help explain the background behind the initial decision to install the tracking-security feature, its limited use, and next steps.

• Why are webcams installed on student laptops?

The Apple computers that the District provides to students come equipped with webcams and students are free to utilize this feature for educational purposes.

• Why was the remote tracking-security feature installed?

Laptops are a frequent target for theft in schools and off school property. The security feature was installed to help locate a laptop in the event it was reported lost, missing or stolen so that the laptop could be returned to the student.

• How did the security feature work?

Upon a report of a suspected lost, stolen or missing laptop, the feature was activated by the District's security and technology departments. The tracking-security feature was limited to taking a still image of the operator and the operator's screen. This feature has only been used for the limited purpose of locating a lost, stolen or missing laptop. The District has not used the tracking feature or web cam for any other purpose or in any other manner whatsoever.

• Do you anticipate reactivating the tracking-security feature?

Not without express written notification to all students and families.

We regret if this situation has caused any concern or inconvenience among our students and families. We are reviewing the matter and will provide an additional update as soon as information becomes available.

Sincerely,

Dr. Christopher McGinley
Superintendent

This doesn't explain how a student came to be disciplined for inappropriate behaviour based on a webcam photo.

[Mental]

It is as simple as this. Little Beth or Johnny is coming in their room after a shower, and fires up yea ole school issued laptop while they get dressed after soccer practice. While it gets going, spanky the creepy admin pops on the unauthrorized spy cam, and bam, child porn, like it or not.

The mere possibilty of school endorsed un-intentional child porn should have had anyone who works in education freaking right out before hand, but they all said yes.

When the fall out comes from this, it will be a hired 3rd party, that montiored at the school request and only reported incidents that were not un natural and the school will vehemently claim they did nothing wrong.

More than lost jobs, someone should see some time picking roadside trash for this.

[roadmissile]

If the webcams were turned on surreptitiously? Anything captured, from a student sitting in front of the computer just doing homework, to fappers, to an empty room, would be inappropriate.

I meant the improper behavior by the student described in the OP

/RM

[rolly]

Less than a day after Harriton High School's questionable laptop policy made headlines online, its school district has disabled its remote monitoring capabilities. The Lower Merion School District (LMSD) issued a statement in response to a privacy lawsuit by a student saying that it has disabled its "security tracking feature" that allowed the schools to remotely spy on students, even while at home. LMSD claims this feature has never been used for anything but security purposes, though some comments online indicate the contrary.

a user claiming to be a recent Harriton High School graduate posted his perspective online, noting that the green light on the MacBooks' built-in webcam would come on often enough to arouse student suspicion. "Some [students] covered it up with tape and post-its because they thought the IT guys were watching them," he wrote.

[Zim]

a user claiming to be a recent Harriton High School graduate posted his perspective online, noting that the green light on the MacBooks' built-in webcam would come on often enough to arouse student suspicion. "Some [students] covered it up with tape and post-its because they thought the IT guys were watching them," he wrote.

See! Post-its! I'm not crazy! I mean no, I haven't noticed the green light coming on, but who looks at status lights when they're staring at boo... er, bank statements.

[stiles]

Ahhh, Lower Merion. Too much money and not enough sense.

[piccini9]

It's bad enough that they seemed to think that this was acceptable, but the fact that it seems to have not occurred to them that some people might find this objectionable just reeks of stupid.



fuckin' people

[Ames]

There's a problem with administration, they tend to think of student rights as a secondary concern by justifying security first. I realize this is a blanket statement, but at least in this case, it seems to have been supported by their rebuttal to the initial concern. Yeah, tech is cool and all, but it still doesn't replace good teaching and common sense.

[leftlaneguy]

To be honest, I think the administration was being responsible in the 'intended use' area of this security system. I don't think it's an administration problem... I DO think it's an employee problem. Think about this, ppl....
The school uses the on-board security system for it's intended purpose. Great Idea. I know ALOT of folx who have Macs that employ thissystem, and LOVE IT. It does what it's intended for. The REAL issue is that some fuck-wad in the IT dept at said school is a pedophile. He discovered that he could randomly turn on the webcam on on female students' laptops, and 'spy' on them. Simple. It's not some neferiuos scheme by administartion to spy on the student-body...

There is also the pervasive issue of teens 'Sexting' in class, and at home... Sure, that *is* a privacy issue, but if it crosses into school territory, then it IS an administration issue. Notice that nothing was said about that being the possible 'inappropriate' behaviour. I dunno about you guys, but I for one, would be royally pissed if my daughter was recieving naked pics from various lads at school on her school-supplied computer... And would EXPECT the administration to do something about it. Parents have proven absolutely useless in the area of teaching thier kids what's right and wrong here. If school equipment is being used for this kind of thing, then it is thier responsibility to try to police it... I imaging that the whole story might just explain a similar scenario.

[rolly]

The REAL issue is that some fuck-wad in the IT dept at said school is a pedophile. He discovered that he could randomly turn on the webcam on on female students' laptops, and 'spy' on them. Simple. It's not some neferiuos scheme by administartion to spy on the student-body...

If that is the case why was a student punished for "inappropriate behaviour" caught on webcam by the administration?

[leftlaneguy]

The REAL issue is that some fuck-wad in the IT dept at said school is a pedophile. He discovered that he could randomly turn on the webcam on on female students' laptops, and 'spy' on them. Simple. It's not some neferiuos scheme by administartion to spy on the student-body...

If that is the case why was a student punished for "inappropriate behaviour" caught on webcam by the administration?

See the second part of my thoughts...

[dozer]

..... I dunno about you guys, but I for one, would be royally pissed if my daughter was recieving naked pics from various lads at school on her school-supplied computer... And would EXPECT the administration to do something about it. Parents have proven absolutely useless in the area of teaching thier kids what's right and wrong here. If school equipment is being used for this kind of thing, then it is thier responsibility to try to police it... I imaging that the whole story might just explain a similar scenario.

What? Why is that? If a student chooses to use a computer that is given by the school to do school work and then also use it to send a naked picture of herself (or a guy send images to his girlfriend, whatever), why is that 1) A problem, 2)Any of the schools business 3) any of anyones business, other than the two involved parties? If the reciever chooses to send them to people that they were not intended for, that becomes a separate issue but certainly does not happen in the majority of situations; and either way I don't see how that comes back to the school having a duty to police private images or acts done via a computer that is in someones private residence..

[rolly]

The REAL issue is that some fuck-wad in the IT dept at said school is a pedophile. He discovered that he could randomly turn on the webcam on on female students' laptops, and 'spy' on them. Simple. It's not some neferiuos scheme by administartion to spy on the student-body...

If that is the case why was a student punished for "inappropriate behaviour" caught on webcam by the administration?

See the second part of my thoughts...

Does not address the question.
The school claims the monitoring software is for theft recovery only. If that is true, how did the school administration take pictures of a student engaged in "inappropriate behaviour"?

[leftlaneguy]

Well, again, it doesn't specify what the innappropriate behaviour was.. If it was something like I outlined, that becomes a problem because, in most states, pictures of this type are considered child pornography..

That's why that is an issue.

[Sockpuppet]

LMSD response to 'invasion of privacy' allegation

Updated 2/18/10 5:26 PM

Dear LMSD Community,

Last year, our district became one of the first school systems in the United States to provide laptop computers to all high school students. This initiative has been well received and has provided educational benefits to our students.

The District is dedicated to protecting and promoting student privacy. The laptops do contain a security feature intended to track lost, stolen and missing laptops. This feature has been deactivated effective today.

The following questions and answers help explain the background behind the initial decision to install the tracking-security feature, its limited use, and next steps.

• Why are webcams installed on student laptops?

The Apple computers that the District provides to students come equipped with webcams and students are free to utilize this feature for educational purposes.

• Why was the remote tracking-security feature installed?

Laptops are a frequent target for theft in schools and off school property. The security feature was installed to help locate a laptop in the event it was reported lost, missing or stolen so that the laptop could be returned to the student.

• How did the security feature work?

Upon a report of a suspected lost, stolen or missing laptop, the feature was activated by the District's security and technology departments. The tracking-security feature was limited to taking a still image of the operator and the operator's screen. This feature has only been used for the limited purpose of locating a lost, stolen or missing laptop. The District has not used the tracking feature or web cam for any other purpose or in any other manner whatsoever.

• Do you anticipate reactivating the tracking-security feature?

Not without express written notification to all students and families.

We regret if this situation has caused any concern or inconvenience among our students and families. We are reviewing the matter and will provide an additional update as soon as information becomes available.

Sincerely,

Dr. Christopher McGinley
Superintendent

They are lying.

There is a hell of an attempt at misdirection in here that may lead people to believe that the school "only" accessed machines when they were reported lost or stolen.

That is a technological impossibility.

In fact the school accessed, at least to trace the location of, each and every machine each and every time it was connected to The Internet.

That is, they were (and are, if the software is still on those computers) in fact spying, to at least the knowledge of location, on each and every one of those 2,300 machines, whether they "activate" the cameras or not.

Let me explain a few things for those who are reading this Ticker yet do not understand how The Internet operates.

Let's presume that I have one of these "school-issued" computers because I stole said machine.

I then take it home and turn it on, connect to The Internet via my cable modem, and surf away.

Can the school locate the machine?

It cannot unless the school has previously installed on that computer spyware that intentionally has the computer "phone home" whenever it is connected to The Internet, thereby providing the school with a location trace each and every time it is used, whether it is stolen or not.

This is due to how The Internet works. There are 4 billion "IP Addresses" that exist in the IPv4 space. You could almost literally show up with your machine on any one of them. Now this isn't quite true in practice, because for routing reasons ARIN (American Registry for Internet Numbers) and their cohorts RIPE, APNIC and similar attempt to congregate the numbers used in various regions and by various internet providers into contiguous blocks. This is done so that the Internet's routing table does not require 4 billion entries. As a consequence a "/16", or 65,536 IP addresses, might be assigned and routed in "one block" to a given cable company. Larger aggregates are assigned "en-masse" to nations and regions of the globe.

But the point remains - it is not possible for the school to "scan" for missing computers - that is, it can't "ask the Internet to turn on the camera in machine #2323."

That is technologically impossible.

So what the school has loaded on these machines - what it has to have loaded on these machines - is in fact much more nefarious than is being disclosed.

These systems have to have software on them that "phones home" and checks in on a regular basis with some fixed IP address (belonging to the school.) This function then gives the school the "at that instant" IP address where the machine is located. Once the student's computer has "phoned in" the school system can then tell it to do various things - for example, capture the keyboard, turn on the web cam and take a picture, or even load and run an arbitrary piece of software (say, to look for a given file or transmit the contents of a file to the school's site.)

The key here is that the machine must phone in for each separate IP address it connects through before any such remote command can be given to it, because otherwise the "home base" has no possible way of knowing to what Internet address it should direct the command it wants to have the remote machine execute.

This isn't conjecture, this is fact given the how The Internet operates. It cannot be otherwise.

As such the location of each and every one of these machines is being traced at all times by the school district, whether they claim they are using the "remote camera" feature or not!

They didn't disclose that in these interviews and articles, did they?

It gets better. In essentially every case all that is necessary to locate a "missing" or "stolen" computer is the "ping" from the remote location to the central site. Armed with the IP address that a stolen or missing machine is on, the person can use a simple command to determine where it is. For instance, my home computer is at 70.169.168.7 - if I use "dig -x xxxxxx" I get back:

7.168.169.70.in-addr.arpa. 17409 IN PTR wsip-70-169-168-7.pn.at.cox.net.

This tells me that the machine is on a network operated by COX Communications. I can then call COX (or ask the police to call COX) and they can tell me (or the cops) the exact location where that IP address is. Many home services "move addresses around", but given an IP address and a time virtually all Internet providers can tell you who owned the account or circuit that was in use. MCSNet, when I ran it, commonly was subpoenaed for this information by various law enforcement authorities for perfectly legitimate reasons (e.g. tracking down someone engaged in child pornography distribution.) We, like essentially every Internet provider, kept this information on a session-by-session basis because it was necessary to do so in order to generate bills to customers - that is, it is and was an ordinary business record that was necessary for the operation of our firm.

So all the school really needs to track a lost or stolen laptop is the IP address from a "phone home" application. They thus have little if any reason to take control of said machine, or to activate the camera - unless they intend to act as Stasi-style spies.



from here.

http://market-ticker.org/archives/1986- ... hools.html

[rolly]

Robbins told reporters outside his house last night that the improper behavior he was cited for was eating Mike & Ike candies, which he said the school mistook for illegal pills.

Hahaha hahahaha! Er, I mean, that would be delicious, if proven to be true.

A federal grand jury has also taken an interest.

[Beemer Dan]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the kid took a pic of himself doing the "terrible thing"™, and sent it to a classmate for a laff. The classmate in turn sent it to someone at the school, or the classmate was somehow caught with the photo. How many times do you remember a teacher discovering details of something that was none of the school's business because they happened to overhear some kids or grab a note being passed around?

I know that all of the Big Brother™ stuff is out there, and it's even in use to some extent, but it just sounds a bit outlandish that it would be used in such a blatantly obvious and possibly sinister way by school employees for anything official. It also seems unlikely that anyone smart enough to end up in any sort of IT department would (if they were using such methods for strange/pervy purposes) end up getting themselves into such a dangerous position by letting such information about their bad activities be known.

I'm pretty sure that there is a law of humanity regarding high tech conspiracy stuff that boils down to:

If evidence leads to a deep and nefarious plot by any large group/organization to obliterate the constitution, enslave everyone, wipe out humanity, etc., don't rule out the possibility that it's just fumbling idiots using archaic methods that unintentionally bugger things up on an epic scale. In other words; when the doomsday device is about to commit, take a moment before putting on the hockey mask/leather codpiece/wrist mounted crossbow and make sure someone remembered to add coolant to the reactor that morning.

[GeekGrl]

This thread makes me very glad that I do not have a webcam on my computer. There are enough privacy and security issues involved in using the internet without worrying if someone could remotely activate a webcam!

[rolly]

Remember this? As the case moves forward more details have come to light.

"Discovery to date has now revealed that thousands of webcam pictures and screen shots (.pdf) have been taken from numerous other students in their homes, many of which never reported their laptops lost or missing," attorney Mark Haltzman wrote in a Thursday federal court filing...

School District Allegedly Snapped Thousands of Student Webcam Spy Pics

[FastCat]

Remember this? As the case moves forward more details have come to light.

"Discovery to date has now revealed that thousands of webcam pictures and screen shots (.pdf) have been taken from numerous other students in their homes, many of which never reported their laptops lost or missing," attorney Mark Haltzman wrote in a Thursday federal court filing...

School District Allegedly Thousands of Student Webcam Spy Pics

Hmmm, well...

...I wonder if any of those photos involve any law-enforcement personnel?

[Jaeger]

Nice catch, Rolly.

Yeah, um, NO. That's fuckin' invasive, period. Someone should be going to jail for that.

--Jaeger