The difference between Men and Women...

[Metalredneck]

<a href="" title="385125822_fhyfG-L by redneckfri13, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2479/361 ... 94dc_o.jpg" width="480" height="460" alt="385125822_fhyfG-L" /></a>

[ninemileskid]

I thought it was funny. Not as funny as this.......

What's the difference between an Irish wake and an Irish wedding?

One less drunk!

Or this:

What's the difference between sixteen ounces of spaghetti and an Italian piano player?

One weighs a pound and the other pounds away!

.........but still funny.


Show me a joke that won't offend someone somewhere.

[Caliann]

Oh Puhhhh-leeeaaaseee!

Myself, sunrat, moto, and the rest of us who dislike this are NOT, and have never looked for "special privileges". However, some equality would be nice.

Stereotype jokes are told as an "everyone knows this, which is why it is funny". And no matter what group they are dissing...and often they get to diss two or more groups at a time, it still performs its function of spreading the stereotype as truth.

You think sexism is dead? Well, ask Merlyn....he spent a good amount of time being absolutely FURIOUS at the fact that we were treated COMPLETELY unequally.....when we were working for the same outfit, doing the same job, with the same amount of experience and skill, and for which we had been employed an equal amount of time.....and for which he was paid approximately $2 an hour more than I was for.

At the time we were in bad enough straights where I just shrugged..."We need the money, and truthfully this is the way it has been all of my life. It doesn't actually bother me anymore."

If attempting to EDUMUCATE you folks on the sorts of attitudes, jokes, and actions that *keep sexism and racism alive and well* is victim mentality, lack of humor, etc., etc., ad infinitum, well....



I'll just title myself the Slutty Feminazi.

Peace out.

[Gauss]

So the OP was basically an anecdote about a woman over analyzing a situation....reading more into a situation than what really is there

Now, according to some...apparently it is not a harmless joke...but a tool of oppression or something....

Christ, the irony

I always thought it was best to rally against stereotypes by living your life in contradiction of them, not living up (or down) to them

[sun rat]

So the OP was basically an anecdote about a woman over analyzing a situation....reading more into a situation than what really is there

Now, according to some...apparently it is not a harmless joke...but a tool of oppression or something....

Christ, the irony

I always thought it was best to rally against stereotypes by living your life in contradiction of them, not living up (or down) to them

well, you learn something new everyday. i thought puking at something disgusting was just puking at something disgusting.

or is that your fancy way of telling the wimmenfolk to just sit down and shutup?

[Caliann]

From Psychology of Prejudice, Theories of contemporary prejudice:

* Dominant social groups who hold contemporary prejudices express those prejudices in ways that can be justified on unprejudiced grounds.

* Employ psychological defense mechanism to rationalize and justify their prejudice behavior.

People will express those prejudices in ways that can be justified on unprejudiced grounds

People will have a genuine acceptance of the principle of equality and rejection of traditional prejudice with effects of old-fashioned prejudices that has been learned while growing up.

Characteristics of Modern-Symbolic prejudice-

* Belief that prejudice and discrimination no longer exist
* Differences in economic outcomes result from minority people’s lack of motivation to work hard enough to get what they want
* Minority people are unwilling to work to get what they want, their continuing anger over inequality is unjustified
* Rather than working for the ahead, minority people seek special favors
* Relative to others, [insert] people have been getting more than they deserve economically. Claims of continued inequality are unjustified.

Aversive Prejudice and Behaviors:

Will discriminate against members of other groups when the behavior can be justified or rationalized as unprejudiced.

Study in prejudice as effects students:

"More latent discrimination, like prejudice, jokes and stories, lead to self-confidence coping strategies by students. The results are reflected on the basis of women's and men's studies. The conclusions refer to inherent dilemmas in research on masculinities and femininities in engineering education."

Published by F. SAGEBIEL; J. DAHMEN .

[roadmissile]

I'd just like to take a moment out of the very serious discussion to say the pics people are posting in this thread are filled with win.

/RM

[Gauss]

or is that your fancy way of telling the wimmenfolk to just sit down and shutup?

Yeah that's exactly what I am saying And while yer at it, make me a damn sammich.

Is there no middle ground between joining in your latest outrage of the week and being a sexist?

If you see sexism, oppression, everywhere you look, you might want consider at some point that you're just seeing what you want to see.

Lighten up Francis...

[ninemileskid]

Stereotype jokes are told as an "everyone knows this, which is why it is funny". And no matter what group they are dissing...and often they get to diss two or more groups at a time, it still performs its function of spreading the stereotype as truth.

Not always. Sometimes they're told because educated people have the ability to laugh at themselves. Are all Irishmen drunks? Of course not, but that does not stop me from laughing at a lot of those jokes.
Do mice and bulldogs commonly team up against cats? Nope, but I do see the humor in Tom and Jerry.
Now if you believe all Irishmen drink, then it's hurtfull, but we're smarter than that aren't we?
And if we believe mice and dogs form teams then we're just plain stupid, which brings me back to what people are that belive in the stereotypes.

[xtian]

I agree with everything caliann wrote, at the difference that it describes to perfection how a group of locals can joke about immigrants when they unconsciously fear and envy them most of the time (because they're supposed to have it always so easier than poor locals who have to work harder or that's what I hear here anyway). As an undecorver immigrant I often got trap in this good old feeling of common origin that allows people to make racist jokes with mewhen there are no immigrants around.
but seriously, that joke was not told agains't a minority to proove some majority's superiority, it was about men and women. i can only speak for myself but I guess most of us *enjoy* women, not at all in the way some racist pig can enjoy the presence of immigrants.

and what about the girl with the two black eyes?

[sun rat]

it comes down to this: 6 women out of 7 did not like the sexist joke.

why are you men continuing to attempt to invalidate the 6 women's opinion on this?

[Gauss]

why are you men continuing to attempt to invalidate the 6 women's opinion on this?

Having and voicing a different opinion is not an attempt at invalidation...(unless of course you are suggesting that your opinion is so weak that any resistance to it causes it to falter). People have the right to have a differing opinion, even those equipped with penises

Why does everything have to be oppressive and combative with you? It is not a simple case of having a different opinion, no...it is men trying to invalidate you.

I think it is funny as hell that a joke about a woman reading too much into a situation crosses over into real life, leading to you reading too much into a situation...filling the stereotype with your own personal prejudices which seem to center around men being sexist pigs if they don't believe the worst in other men and themselves.

What I object to is the attempt to sanitize everything to the point where no one runs the risk of being offended...especially when the bar is set to the point of satisfying your hair trigger.

After all this is The Grinder: "All manner of rude psychological abuse is welcome and encouraged."

[goose]

If you see sexism, oppression, everywhere you look, you might want consider at some point that you're just seeing what you want to see.

Lighten up Francis...

+1. Seriously time to go for a ride or something. Really, the world is not out to get you, or if it is, well, look out. Find the joke in poor taste? Indeed, it may well be. A forum for some sort of Paglia/Dworkin world hates women thing? Umm, not really.

[Dobbs]

Of course, you reacted just as anyone who has told such a joke in disapproving company does....try to defend themselves by complaining that the people who did not like it should lighten up.

Is that what I did?

Thanks for pointing that out...I'd be nothin' with out you...Get it...

[ninemileskid]

we were working for the same outfit, doing the same job, with the same amount of experience and skill, and for which we had been employed an equal amount of time.....and for which he was paid approximately $2 an hour more than I was for.

At the time we were in bad enough straights where I just shrugged..."We need the money, and truthfully this is the way it has been all of my life. It doesn't actually bother me anymore."

There's your problem. Not "THE" problem, "YOUR" problem.
You want equality but you'll work for less pay. And it doesn't bother you. You just helped fuck the next sister that comes along. And you want to blame men.

[Priest]

The OP was joking? I thought he was talking about me - because that's totally me. Seriously. I think I have had a journal that actually said something of that nature.

And I'm all about equal rights... and lefts.

[xtian]

oh that's reminds me...

sexual equality is an utopy. mine's bigger that yours.

[sun rat]

If you see sexism, oppression, everywhere you look, you might want consider at some point that you're just seeing what you want to see.

Lighten up Francis...

+1. Seriously time to go for a ride or something. Really, the world is not out to get you, or if it is, well, look out. Find the joke in poor taste? Indeed, it may well be. A forum for some sort of Paglia/Dworkin world hates women thing? Umm, not really.

do you say the same stuff to people who complain about your racist jokes?

what is the difference?

this non-chalant "oh if most of the women have a problem with disparaging, demeaning, devaluing jokes about them it's their problem" attitude is a big reason the problem still exists. and it will not go away on its own. it will not stop till men stop being non-chalant about women's complaints.

did you even notice the number of women who have an issue? 6 out of 7.

pay attention.

[goose]

presumes i make racist jokes. please, which racist joke are you referring to?

don't bother trying to answer that.... could take you a very long time. I make class jokes. I mock unions and the poor and the rich and the middle class. Since economic status is not a protected class... consult someone who really cares what you take issue with. In the mean time, I plan on joining one of those very persons who did not like the joke, however, does not take "issue" with the poor joke, for a beer. Assuredly, I will make jokes and judgments all the while.

[Moto_Myotis]

I make class jokes. I mock unions and the poor and the rich and the middle class.

Actually, you mock me almost constantly. Probably mostly because I am a working class feminist and union supporter and I can't back my bike up very well when I'm parked on gravel.

However, I do understand that I am rubber and you are glue and whatever you say bounces off of me and goes straight back on you!

So there.

[goose]

I make class jokes. I mock unions and the poor and the rich and the middle class.

Actually, you mock me almost constantly. Probably mostly because I am a working class feminist and union supporter and I can't back my bike up very well when I'm parked on gravel.

However, I do understand that I am rubber and you are glue and whatever you say bounces off of me and goes straight back on you!

So there.

I'll stop mocking you when you can put two feet down while sitting on the duck. Til then, I'll give as good as i get

[Moto_Myotis]

I make class jokes. I mock unions and the poor and the rich and the middle class.

Actually, you mock me almost constantly. Probably mostly because I am a working class feminist and union supporter and I can't back my bike up very well when I'm parked on gravel.

However, I do understand that I am rubber and you are glue and whatever you say bounces off of me and goes straight back on you!

So there.

I'll stop mocking you when you can put two feet down while sitting on the duck. Til then, I'll give as good as i get

Fortunately, I have found a support group to help me cope with your evil insults (and those of mutual friend of ours who has recently started chiming in with Napoleon jokes). Oh yeah, ther term is "heightism." I prefer "diminished stature phobia"

http://www.shortsupport.org/

[Guder]

If you see sexism, oppression, everywhere you look, you might want consider at some point that you're just seeing what you want to see.

Lighten up Francis...

+1. Seriously time to go for a ride or something. Really, the world is not out to get you, or if it is, well, look out. Find the joke in poor taste? Indeed, it may well be. A forum for some sort of Paglia/Dworkin world hates women thing? Umm, not really.

do you say the same stuff to people who complain about your racist jokes?

Can you point to a racist joke he's made?

Otherwise you are creating a false delimma with a Complex Question Fallacy. And painting Gauss as a racist, something which calls for an apology in my book.

OP even gave the caveat "or between rider and non-rider."

You failed to establish the veracity of your initial affront, so you move to a bewildering blend of logical fallacies, including the main components above with subtle undertones of red herring, straw man, slippery slope, and maybe some Chicken Little.

The point of studying fallacies is that they are by nature weak, even though compelling. By falling to them, you should realize your position is flawed. Unless you can correct your position to eliminate them, you can be pretty sure it, or you, is out of line.


In re the initial joke: I found the juxtaposition very funny, especially since I immediately saw myself in the "overthinking" role.

Good thing you're here to correct my false vision of "two people" rather than "misogynist hegemony", which was blinding me to my sexist (and racist?) true nature.

[calamari kid]

[sun rat]

to guder and gauss:

why don't you address the real question in what i wrote instead of picking one tiny sentence out?

why should ANY woman anywhere have to put up with the type of degrading, demeaning "humor" you would NOT expect a person of color to put up with?

[ninemileskid]

Victims that don't fight back will remain forever victims.

Women are their own worst enemies.

[Guder]

to guder and gauss:

why don't you address the real question in what i wrote instead of picking one tiny sentence out?

why should ANY woman anywhere have to put up with the type of degrading, demeaning "humor" you would NOT expect a person of color to put up with?

They shouldn't, and none has been presented here.

[Gauss]

to guder and gauss:

why don't you address the real question in what i wrote instead of picking one tiny sentence out?

why should ANY woman anywhere have to put up with the type of degrading, demeaning "humor" you would NOT expect a person of color to put up with?

They shouldn't, and none has been presented here.

Why bother? She is so dead set on having a chance to rant, she's creating the conversation that she wants to have, not the one that is there.

Show me where I said that women need to put up with degrading humor...What I said was

1) The original joke was about a woman over thinking something, misreading the situation/intent
2) Some got offended...but then some read into the joke some nefarious sexist agenda...in my opinion, misreading the situation or at least the intent of the OP
3) I thought it was ironic that in their haste to condemn a joke about a stereotype they actually fulfilled that stereotype...
4) I suggested it was counterproductive to do so if what you want to do is battle against a stereotype

Then sun rat kind of implied that I was sexist, wanting the women folk to shut up

Then I replied that was not my intent and that she was interpretting my comments incorrectly....and offered my opinion that she was seeing what she wanted to see

Then she claimed that we men were somehow trying to "invalidate" female opinions on the board

I argued that simply stating a contrary opinion was not attempt at invalidation...nd she was letting her personal prejudices color people as something they were not...mainly sexist

I don't know after that...But apparently I am sexist, maybe racist...by all accounts probably homophobic and kick puppies too....I think in her mind, I impose a double standard when it comes to hate speach as long as it is directed at a female?? I don't know...it gets hard to follow after that

Maybe it was this?

"What I object to is the attempt to sanitize everything to the point where no one runs the risk of being offended...especially when the bar is set to the point of satisfying your hair trigger."

But I don't see how I am implying that this should only apply to women

Sun Rat, I wish I could give you one of these of your very own, but this will have to do (although you can make one of your very own with minor carpentry skills)



Hang yourself up on it whenever the mood strikes you...But I warn you, no matter how you go about it, it is impossible to put the last nail in

[Caliann]

There's your problem. Not "THE" problem, "YOUR" problem.
You want equality but you'll work for less pay. And it doesn't bother you. You just helped fuck the next sister that comes along. And you want to blame men.

*laughs*

WHY I WORK---a short essay.

I like food.

The End.

Truth is, we both ended up giving the middle finger to that outfit for that reason....and we both still bitch about redneck sexism.

However, if the sister before me or the sister after me gritted her teeth and just dealt with it because she has two kids at home and no help? No, I am not going to diss her over shouldering the load and just accepting it.

That does not mean that I believe such treatment to be RIGHT or even close to fair.

[Caliann]

*finishes reading the rest of the thread*

Jeebus Christos on a Crutch!

Okay, let me put it to ya'll plain and simply:

ALL humor that stereotypes a person or people by details which they did not choose and are possibly not within their ability to change helps to keep prejudice alive and well.

A person cannot change where they were born, and they did not choose to be the race or sex that they are.

And no matter how light and small the joke may seem, it still does the same thing, which is to promote stereotypes as truth.

Wanna know if you are racist or sexist? Well, the Psychology Dept. at Harvard is ready to help you out...AND you can be helping out scientific research as you do it!

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

Yes, I have taken ALL of them....was required to for an assignment in Psych when I was in college. :)

You wanna make a joke? Joke about YOURSELF. Joke about everyday happenings that could befall ANYONE.

There ARE jokes out there that do not stereotype anyone...and they ARE funny.

Peace out.

P.S. Answer to BDB's riddle: Not a damn thing, ya done tol' her twice. It's a humor piece that makes light of domestic violence.