The supersize me rebuttal......

[Rock]

I thought it was interesting.......


<object width="512" height="288"><param name="movie" value="http://www.hulu.com/embed/djyiCttz-dTjt ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.hulu.com/embed/djyiCttz-dTjtvypNWoCLw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="512" height="288" allowFullScreen="true"></embed></object>


now where is the bacon....

[Mean Chuck]

Fucking jangleplatz!

[roadmissile]

Is it weird that I agree with most of the information in this film but find the filmmaker fucking insufferable?

/RM

[piccini9]

I made it 3 minutes in. The guy said baloney too much, I don't like baloney.

Also, according to my height/weight I am obese. To get to my target weight I would need to have a leg amputated.

[Toonce(s)]

Didn't watch the whole thing, but from what I did see:

Things I disagree with:

The first 5 minutes - "We aren't fat fucks after all, that is a LIE from teh HATERS"
Why do hippies hate America?
Carrot juice? How disgusting! Look at him, he is eating LARVAE!


Things I agree with:

Low fat diets are bad for you. Fat is your friend!
Simple carbs are bad for you.

I had already envisioned a fast food conversion kit, which consists of a bag of whole wheat pitas or tortillas. Order fast food sammich, transfer innards into approved delivery system, discard white flour bun. No coke/fries/shake/bun/biscuit/pie, no problem.


If this highly annoying individual has the goal of encouraging people to eat double cheezburgers and pizzas late at night because doing otherwise is Un-American then he is doing more harm than good. The useful bits of information are overshadowed by the permeating corporate propagandist stench.


Yes, much of the dieting theories of the 80s were very misguided and are starting to lose influence, in favor of things like Oz. No shit, thank you very much. Leave the Ronald McDonald ass kissing out of it plz.

p.s. In case you missed it, a gentle reminder that the name of Ronald McDonald's clown face is the BUSTED ASSHOLE face. Fact.

[xtian]

I guess the text stating that this video can only be streamed from the USA is a unintended irony reserved to the foreigners.

[Mean Chuck]

Didn't watch the whole thing, but from what I did see:

Things I disagree with:

The first 5 minutes - "We aren't fat fucks after all, that is a LIE from teh HATERS"
Why do hippies hate America?
Carrot juice? How disgusting! Look at him, he is eating LARVAE!


Things I agree with:

Low fat diets are bad for you. Fat is your friend!
Simple carbs are bad for you.

I had already envisioned a fast food conversion kit, which consists of a bag of whole wheat pitas or tortillas. Order fast food sammich, transfer innards into approved delivery system, discard white flour bun. No coke/fries/shake/bun/biscuit/pie, no problem.


If this highly annoying individual has the goal of encouraging people to eat double cheezburgers and pizzas late at night because doing otherwise is Un-American then he is doing more harm than good. The useful bits of information are overshadowed by the permeating corporate propagandist stench.


Yes, much of the dieting theories of the 80s were very misguided and are starting to lose influence, in favor of things like Oz. No shit, thank you very much. Leave the Ronald McDonald ass kissing out of it plz.

p.s. In case you missed it, a gentle reminder that the name of Ronald McDonald's clown face is the BUSTED ASSHOLE face. Fact.

Do yourself a favor and watch the whole thing, he is not trying to convince anyone to eat fast food and says several times that it is bad for you.
The point he is trying to get across is that if you are fat and unhealthy it is your fault for the choices you make not the fast food chain's fault for making the choices available. To a lot of people it is much easier to point the finger at big business and blame them for their problems than to actually use your brain to solve them. He is encouraging everyone to use common sense, get educated on nutrition and to exercise. Is that bad?


"Super Size Me" actually reminded me of the mentality most christians have and how they blame everything on the devil for giving us sinful choices and want the government to step in and take our choices away (alcohol, gambling, pornography, music and even other religions) to make the world a better place. I like freedom whether it is listening to a band like Ministry or buying a Playboy magazine or getting a 20 piece mcnugget, it's all the same principal and I am going to do it if I want to.


I am 6'4" and 336lbs and while I am muscular, I am still fat because I overeat, eat what I shouldn't and don't exercise enough. My fault no one elses.

BTW, I looked up reviews for this out of curiousity to see what people thought about it and there was a pattern, almost everyone who said bad things about it used the same phrase, "I didn't see the whole thing but...."

[Bigshankhank]

Do yourself a favor and watch the whole thing, he is not trying to convince anyone to eat fast food and says several times that it is bad for you.
The point he is trying to get across is that if you are fat and unhealthy it is your fault for the choices you make not the fast food chain's fault for making the choices available. To a lot of people it is much easier to point the finger at big business and blame them for their problems than to actually use your brain to solve them. He is encouraging everyone to use common sense, get educated on nutrition and to exercise. Is that bad?


"Super Size Me" actually reminded me of the mentality most christians have and how they blame everything on the devil for giving us sinful choices and want the government to step in and take our choices away (alcohol, gambling, pornography, music and even other religions) to make the world a better place. I like freedom whether it is listening to a band like Ministry or buying a Playboy magazine or getting a 20 piece mcnugget, it's all the same principal and I am going to do it if I want to.


I am 6'4" and 336lbs and while I am muscular, I am still fat because I overeat, eat what I shouldn't and don't exercise enough. My fault no one elses.

BTW, I looked up reviews for this out of curiousity to see what people thought about it and there was a pattern, almost everyone who said bad things about it used the same phrase, "I didn't see the whole thing but...."

Do you know how I know you're ghey? You listen to Ministry.

Just kidding (don't hit me please), but in all seriousness, to your point regarding Super-Size Me, and just about everything that Morgan Spurlock puts together, I have to agree. He seems to miss the point that business is there to produce as much as demand will allow them to sell, and to follow markets where they lead in order to maximize those sales. I don't know if he understands that logically he is calling people who "agree" with him that he is essentially calling them helpless weaklings. Personally I think of most vice laws as attempts to force morality on non-christians who would otherwise not know how to control themselves, probably for lack of being christian.
FWIW, if I am totally off-topic from the OP video, well I didn't watch ANY part of it so I won't even attempt to defend or decry it.

[Toonce(s)]

Didn't watch the whole thing, but from what I did see:

...
p.s. In case you missed it, a gentle reminder that the name of Ronald McDonald's clown face is the BUSTED ASSHOLE face. Fact.

BTW, I looked up reviews for this out of curiousity to see what people thought about it and there was a pattern, almost everyone who said bad things about it used the same phrase, "I didn't see the whole thing but...."

I would go back and watch the whole thing sometime maybe, but it would be a chore. Yes the SuperSizeMe guy went out of his way to poison himself and would have gotten sick eating 5000 calories of tofu a day. No, nobody is forcing cheezburgers down your throat. The tone of the film and the excessive use of straw men and overdramatization is profoundly irritating. As a specific example, the scene where he sits down to eat the vegetarian meal and acts like he is being forced to eat raw donkey dicks. Boo hoo! Save him from the bad vegetarian woman! I don't mind the criticism of SuperSizeMe a bit, it is well founded, but what I could bear to watch appeared to be Fast Food Apologism.

Typical american dietary habits are nasty, I am steering clear of processed foods entirely and one of the only places I can eat is the grocery store, outside perimeter. McDs has improved, with the availability of nutritional info, but most of it is dietary greenwashing.

[roadmissile]

I did actually make it through the whole film, despite the filmmaker.

I feel like he bags on Morgan Spurlock a little too much (Yes, I know he wouldn't really have a movie without that, but still...), while I agree that taking personal responsibility is key Super Size Me had a lot of other things going for it and frankly I feel like he missed the point of Spurlock's approach. I mean sure you can eat fast food in a responsible way, but who the fuck wants to? If I'm rolling to Wendy's you better believe I'm walking out of there with a sandwich, fries and a fucking liter of cola.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rmBKcIl4so0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

/RM

PS: Ministry fucking kicks the ass off most of what gets posted in the music thread

[Toonce(s)]

I am 6'4" and 336lbs and while I am muscular, I am still fat because I overeat, eat what I shouldn't and don't exercise enough. My fault no one elses.

You might find that overeating is strongly influenced by nutrition, I did.
A smoker may take personal responsibility for choosing to smoke, but still be an addict.
Read "You on a Diet" by Oz.

[Mean Chuck]

I did actually make it through the whole film, despite the filmmaker.

I feel like he bags on Morgan Spurlock a little too much (Yes, I know he wouldn't really have a movie without that, but still...), while I agree that taking personal responsibility is key Super Size Me had a lot of other things going for it and frankly I feel like he missed the point of Spurlock's approach. I mean sure you can eat fast food in a responsible way, but who the fuck wants to? If I'm rolling to Wendy's you better believe I'm walking out of there with a sandwich, fries and a fucking liter of cola.

I wish there was footage in the film of Ronald Mcdonald beating the shit out of Spurlock for being such a self-important, fame-hungry jackass and the going over to Micheal Moore and set his house on fire with him in it for good measure. Tom's biggest point is to use your brain and Spurlock's is to point fingers and blame.

[Mean Chuck]

For those of you that want the info without the fast food angle or mention of Spurlock he also has a good presentation you can watch, it is quite long but at least watch the first part it has a lot of good info there.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/exi7O1li_wA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Jaeger]

Quite simply, it doesn't really matter until you have heart disease or get diabetes.

Yes, I agree that my status as "technically obese" is bullshit -- technically Ahnold was "obese" when he was in his prime too -- the CDC's metrics are all jacked up.

That said, the incidence of type 2 diabetes is climbing. That's not in question. You can argue with whether or not you think your ranking is bullshit, but you can't argue with insulin shock.

And yes, it's all about moderation. McDonald's doesn't force feed people, but they do make it awfully easy to accidentally consume too many calories in a sitting without trying too hard. I've been following the Adkins Diet thread, and while I've had some luck with the high-protein stuff, I'm still skeptical about eating unlimited fat -- it's about the number of calories you consume, not the vehicle through which they're conveyed. Fat is "bad" because there are 9 calories per gram of fat, compared to 4 calories per gram of protein of carbohydrate.

I know it's hard to swallow (ha!) but... both Spurlock and this guy have points. (I confess, didn't watch the whole thing, didn't have time -- trying to get to the gym. )

--Jaeger

(P.S. -- that animated gif working?)

[Mean Chuck]

McDonald's doesn't force feed people, but they do make it awfully easy to accidentally consume too many calories in a sitting without trying too hard.

True, so does every resturant, diner, bar, grocery store, convience store and vending machine you will ever come across so while single out the golden arches as the gates to hell? It's about the choices we make and not the choices we should have taken away.
For some reason it all reminds me of this-

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6pSEMNEqQJI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DerGolgo]

(P.S. -- that animated gif working?)

Good question. Maybe that jpeg you posted can tell us

Adults are responsible for what they eat.
McD are responsible for exploiting idiot parents and children's maleability to get many people just used to treating shit as food.
Evolution is responsible for making us want to eat high-calory food all day.
Gut bacteria is responsible for some people more effectively converting food than others.
The sedentary lifestyle of the industrialized world is responsible for us not needing all that food that is so easily available to us.
Lazyness and economics are responsible for many people preferring industrially made, cheap, nasty convenience food to actual food.

Unfortunately, as always in life, there is no silver bullet to fight the obesity epidemic (yet).

I guess we'll see people getting a lot thinner when the oil and arable soil and hence the abundant food run out.
Or someone invents an implant that constantly monitors your metabolism and body chemistry, updating that to the cloud so GoogleEats can deliver a custom-made, robot-cooked, individually designed, surprising, delicious, comforting, convenient and super-healthy meal to your door.
That and transplants of super-inefficient gut bacteria that will let most of the calories just drop out your bum.

[Jaeger]

True, so does every resturant, diner, bar, grocery store, convience store and vending machine you will ever come across so while single out the golden arches as the gates to hell? It's about the choices we make and not the choices we should have taken away.

Abso-fuckin'-lutely. No argument from me. That people CHOOSE to eat greasy pre-packaged dogshit is their problem. I LOATHE the legislations like NYC where they banned "trans fat" and smoking.

Goddamit, whatever happened to having a free fucking country? As far as I'm concerned it's a self-solving problem: get morbidly obese, get heart disease, and die. Simple. Death, while inconvenient, is cheap (at least compared to healthcare).

Prediction: if Obama et al do manage to federalize healthcare we will see a huge increase in the number of anti-obesity legislation. It's unavoidable. It's one thing if someone wants to jack themselves up to 500lbs and then deal with the consequences themselves, but it's quite another if they essentially poison themselves and then demand that the rest of us pick up the tab for their gastric-bypass surgery and/or heart medication and/or insulin.

The problem with the theoretical American system is that it assumes that John Q. Citizen is an intelligent and responsible adult. He isn't. This problem extends to pretty much every aspect of American politics and governance. How we reconcile this with the precepts on which we were founded is well beyond my ability to answer.

For some reason it all reminds me of this-

Dennis Leary is my hero.

--Jaeger

[Mean Chuck]

It's been a while since I saw Super Size Me, but I don't think Spurlock discounts personal responsibility, just says that there are other factors involved-- the school lunch with french fries as a vegetable comes to mind. Saying that it's all one or the other would be silly.

As for Naughton, I didn't watch the two hour movie, but I read some of his stuff, and watched the video Chuck posted. He reminds me of the "smokers' rights" campaigns that turned out to be funded by the tobacco companies, or the anti-climate change crowd that turned out to be funded by Exxon (he's big on the anti-climate change as well). That shit plays well with a certain type of conservative, but I would caution against getting dietary advice from a stand-up comedian.

The biggest thing I get from all of this is it is more important to use common sense in your choices instead of blaming a corperation for it and wanting the government to step in and take even more freedoms away which seems to be guys like Spurlock and Moore seem to be promoting. He is not even saying to take his advice but to use your head and learn something.

If anyone is funding him they must be broke.

[roadmissile]

The important lesson here is Colorado is awesome.

/RM

[WeAintFoundShit]

Yeah, I watched three minutes before it got annoying.
The only thing I have to bring to the conversation is the part of supersize me where they talk about the dude who eats a big mac every single day, and how he's healthy because he skips all of the other bullshit that they sell in mass quantity.
It's been a while since I saw Supersize Me, but the takeaway for me was that it's part of American culture to eat the shittiest processed food we can get our fucking hands on, and as much of it at a sitting as we can shovel into our greedy pie-holes, and it's gross. Fast foods up-sell the holy shit out of the culture, and a lot of people buy into it.

Plus there's the whole "lack of access to good nutrition" thing that goes along with being ignorant and on the lower rungs of the economic ladder (along with the lack of access to good education, hence the ignorance).

I guess what I'm trying to say in the laziest, most disjointed way possible, is that there are many facts on both sides of the argument that hold a lot of water.
Fast food joints shouldn't go feeding people the worst of all possible products, because some people either don't really know how bad it is, or can't really afford much better.
There really needs to be more education about it, but then there's the fact that there really needs to be more education period, and poor people don't have access to it.
The rest of us are free to make our own moves, and have no right to bitch if we eat the shit and get diabetes from it.

[MoraleHazard]

In many respects, I liked the video. I haven't watched Super-size Me and suppose that I should.

One of the things I really agree with Fat Head is that BMI is shit. I'm 6'3" 250 and technically "obese". Even when I was 210 just out of college I was still "overweight". I remember doing Atkins a few years ago, dropping down to 220 and co-workers telling me I was looking "too skinny"

If Naughton and Spurlock both agree that drinking 44 ozs. of High Fructose Corn Syrup is bad for me, it's advice I'm going to follow.

My diet plan is simple: Everything in moderation, eat a variety of foods, no prepackaged food (except on the road or other rare occasions), eat slow, moderate the alcohol, and don't eat when full.

Oh, and get excercise. When I'm 45 and if I'm carrying a little bit of a gut, I don't give a shit. I think we as a culture are crazy to expect to live and work very sedentary lives and then also expect to have washboard abs in our 50s.

[Toonce(s)]

I am going ahead and watching the whole thing now.

This food log is vital for discussion:
http://fathead-movie.com/content/MyFoodLog.htm

This approximates how I would choose to eat if locked in a McDonalds and not given an alternative, and I have been on a low-carb regimen for months now so it wouldn't be a chore. However, ask yourself, how does this food log compare to what is normally consumed at McD's? If asked the question which videographer more realistically represents the hazards of fast food, I would give it to Spurlock. Naughton's disciplined diet is further away from reality than Spurlock's excess. Naughton never drinks soda and only eats fries three times in the entire 28 days.

Moar to follow.

...(moar)
Early on Naughton is talking with his doctor in the initial assessment. He says that he exercises by walking three times per week, briskly. How far, the doctor asks? 5 miles. Later, he lays out his program saying that he will increase his exercise a bit and walk 6 days a week instead of three. He neglects to mention that his walks are 5 miles this time, but he is now up to walking 30 miles per week. Just as he claims that Spurlock has a false narrative of "I ate 3 meals a day at McD and gained 25 pounds" Naughton has a false narrative of "I ate McDonalds for a month and lost 10 pounds". They both did things to bias the outcome in favor of their arguments. Spurlock ate all the crap he could, Naughton carefully avoided carbs, counted calories and walked 30 miles per week.

[Rabbit_Fighter]

I enjoyed that. I'm not 100% convinced of anything, but I think he raises some really good points.

As for a realistic diet; I don't drink soda. I rarely eat fast food, but went to McDonald's recently and had water. Fries, on the other hand, I consumed quite a few of. I could easily tone that down though.