I keep throwing up in my mouth. It won't stop.

WeAintFoundShit · Post by **WeAintFoundShit** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:15 pm

So I once tried to read Atlas Shrugged. I thought it was the worst piece of literary hackery to which I'd ever subjected myself, and promptly put it down.
There it sat, on my shelf, for god knows how long.
The book keeps coming up in political and philosophical debates, though, so tonight, I finally took a deep breath and started reading it again.
I'm 43 pages in, and the bile in the back of my throat is trying to burn its way to my brain in an attempt to dissolve the part that controls my sense of revulsion.

Regardless of what you think about her philosophy, this is the most blatantly ham fisted, self aggrandizing, propagandist bullshit to which I, once again, have ever subjected myself.

It baffles the mind that Ayn Rand, more than any single "intellectual" on the planet, has influenced the monetary policy and political landscape of our country for the past twenty odd years.

BillyName99 · Post by **BillyName99** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:34 pm

I had the same reaction.

Rand may have had some interesting philosophical points to make, but her "novels" were complete and utter crap.

I have no problems with someone espousing a particular worldview, but I think that if they want to do so, it should not be a rant poorly disguised as a novel.

Write a political treatise. Write a manifesto. Write it up as a dissertation if you must.

But if you are going to write a novel, then learn how to write a f&^%ing novel!

xtian · Post by **xtian** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:43 pm

I must confess that The Fountainhead did about the same to me.
I thought it was just me.

roadmissile · Post by **roadmissile** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:07 pm

xtian wrote:I must confess that The Fountainhead did about the same to me.

I find The Fountainhead significantly more tolerable, but then it was pretty much required reading for all the architecture kids.

Atlas Shrugged on the other hand didn't work for me at all, I still can't believe they made a film of it

/RM

The Shifty Jesus · Post by **The Shifty Jesus** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:49 am

I actually thought The Fountainhead was amazing. So much in fact that I ran out and bought Atlas Shrugged and jumped in.

Three months later I'm still torturing myself. It really is kind of a turd. An extremely descriptive and wordy turd.

Bigshankhank · Post by **Bigshankhank** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:08 am

roadmissile wrote: I find The Fountainhead significantly more tolerable, but then it was pretty much required reading for all the architecture kids.
/RM

Why is that? Its about architecture as much as this board is about Guitargeek's thumb. It plays a role, and a significant one no doubt, but it is not "About" it.

Structurally and philosophically Fountainhead and Atlas are identical, so in my mind they are interchangeable. I wouldn't put one above the other.

piccini9 · Post by **piccini9** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:22 am

When I was in High School I smoked a lot of pot, listened to Rush, and thought Ayn Rand was a great writer.

Then I grew up.

guitargeek · Post by **guitargeek** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:06 am

I prefer Vonnegut, thank you.

xtian · Post by **xtian** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:42 am

piccini9 wrote:When I was in High School I smoked a lot of pot, listened to Rush, and thought Ayn Rand was a great writer.

Then I grew up.

I thought too. And then I read it. In english.

MagnusTheBuilder · Post by **MagnusTheBuilder** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:50 am

guitargeek wrote:I prefer Vonnegut, thank you.

I'll take Stephenie Meyer... that is how I learned that I needed a vampire and werewolf threesome. What an eye opener.

(My copy of Atlas Shrugged sits, unopened, next to the other 3 different copies on my bookshelf that people have purchased for me because "It is totally a book about you. I can't believe that you haven't read it. Here, I got you a copy." over the course of the past 12 years.)

motorpsycho67 · Post by **motorpsycho67** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:50 am

I love youse guys....

Post by **DerGolgo** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:28 am

You guys are just making me itch to finally crack that ebook I think I have lying around somewhere...

Zim · Post by **Zim** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:43 am

piccini9 wrote:When I was in High School I smoked a lot of pot, listened to Rush, and thought Ayn Rand was a great writer.

Then I grew up.

-or-

?

guitargeek wrote:I prefer Vonnegut, thank you.

Your city thanks you; your country thanks you; your planet thanks you. But the deepest thanks of all is from future generations.

DerGolgo wrote:You guys are just making me itch to finally crack that ebook I think I have lying around somewhere...

Same here, to see what all the hullabaloo is about.

goose · Post by **goose** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:03 am

WeAintFoundShit wrote:So I once tried to read Atlas Shrugged. I thought it was the worst piece of literary hackery to which I'd ever subjected myself, and promptly put it down.
There it sat, on my shelf, for god knows how long.
The book keeps coming up in political and philosophical debates, though, so tonight, I finally took a deep breath and started reading it again.
I'm 43 pages in, and the bile in the back of my throat is trying to burn its way to my brain in an attempt to dissolve the part that controls my sense of revulsion.

Regardless of what you think about her philosophy, this is the most blatantly ham fisted, self aggrandizing, propagandist bullshit to which I, once again, have ever subjected myself.

It baffles the mind that Ayn Rand, more than any single "intellectual" on the planet, has influenced the monetary policy and political landscape of our country for the past twenty odd years.

Worse than literary hackery is the philosophical hackery displayed by her syllogistic drivel. Frankly, it's worse than "Dianetics" and that, my friends, is pretty gawdamned unreadable. I believe there is a prior thread on this board discussing the relative merits of this type of "philosophy baiting". Perhaps, it was just a conversation I had in my head. who knows?

On a first date with a very attractive girl we began discussing books, she threw down "Atlas Shrugged" as her favorite book and considered it genius. Despite knowing this date was a "sure thing", I ended the date, paid the bill and called a cab for her. Went on a long ride through the mountains with a smile on my face. Truly an end benefiting the both of us.

The Shifty Jesus · Post by **The Shifty Jesus** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:10 pm

I don't mean to be crass, but I remember a good hate-fuck to be one of the best kinds (only once of course).

goose · Post by **goose** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:25 pm

The Shifty Jesus wrote:I don't mean to be crass, but I remember a good hate-fuck to be one of the best kinds (only once of course).

Indeed. Sadly, it would have been more pity than hate.

roadmissile · Post by **roadmissile** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:41 pm

Bigshankhank wrote:Its about architecture as much as this board is about Guitargeek's thumb. It plays a role, and a significant one no doubt, but it is not "About" it.

On a philosophical level architecture can be a lot of things, a certain amount of the faculty at any architecture school seem to believe that at its most effective you're directing people in how they live, and that this implies a certain amount of arrogance. Plus it's one of the only serious books with an architect in it

Rev wrote:I commend you on your moral fiber. I acted with self-interest in pursuit of my own happiness.

Well played sir, well played indeed.

Personally I think some of you are straying pretty far into the realm of hyperbole. Rand isn't for everyone, and I know a fair few people that aren't able to grasp it, but I'd certainly put a girl that at least tries a level above the girl whose favorite books involve teenage wizards or sparkly vampires

/RM

motorpsycho67 · Post by **motorpsycho67** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:24 pm

Rev wrote: I believe it was Socrates who said "All I know is that I don't know. All I know is that I don't know nothing."

guitargeek · Post by **guitargeek** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:34 pm

MagnusTheBuilder wrote:
guitargeek wrote:I prefer Vonnegut, thank you.
I'll take Stephenie Meyer...

Have... have you read any Kurt Vonnegut?

The Shifty Jesus · Post by **The Shifty Jesus** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:27 pm

He's the guy from Can't Hardly Wait right?

roadmissile · Post by **roadmissile** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:55 pm

Rev wrote:It's fine to not be an intellectual all the time, it's way worse to be an insufferable idiot who thinks they know something.

I said favorite books, there's a difference between cultural slumming and fucking living there

/RM

WeAintFoundShit · Post by **WeAintFoundShit** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:20 am

roadmissile wrote: I'd certainly put a girl that at least tries a level above the girl whose favorite books involve teenage wizards or sparkly vampires

/RM

Yeah, I wouldn't even call that girl a cab.

WeAintFoundShit · Post by **WeAintFoundShit** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:22 am

Rev wrote: I believe it was Socrates who said "All I know is that I don't know. All I know is that I don't know nothing."

Guffaw.
Gonna be stuck on that song for a while tonight.

sun rat · Post by **sun rat** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:33 am

pretending to be an intellectual is highly overrated: it's never gotten ME any dates.

WeAintFoundShit · Post by **WeAintFoundShit** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:00 am

I give up.
105 pages of drivel is enough.

It's like watching a little kid play pretend with some action figures, only without the innocence, and the kid is on meth, and is rubbing it in to the other kids that they can't play, too.

I only have time to read about 50-60 pages a day, and since it's a thousand plus pages long, it would take me about 20 days to read the book.
Since I only get about that much to read a non-textbook per year, I'm not willing to do it.

xtian · Post by **xtian** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:07 am

can I be the euro art fag here and say that Sartres trilogy "the age of reason / the reprieve / troubled sleep" while being a romanced philosophy in situation were good enjoyable books with strong characters and vivid presence that marked my teenage years while the Fountainhead just looked stylishly poor with fake characters acting like tools in a explanation for simple minds. Stephen_king_bad_novel_that_he_wrote_just_as_a_movie_script poor.

and yes, I did not enjoy reading the few pages I tried to read and I was even more annoyed that several people mentioned it as a major book. A bad book does more harm to the reader than to the writer (I should know, I took an active part in some really shitty books)

MoraleHazard · Post by **MoraleHazard** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:49 pm

I didn't hate the fountainhead but thought Atlas Shrugged sucked.

As a righty I was sort-of drawn to Rand but her philosophy is b.s. as it doesn't account for evil, human weakness or whatever. It just assumes that everyone is some sort of ruthlessly honest cutthroat business type that worships money. It's like Communism in reverse. It might work in theory.....

piccini9 · Post by **piccini9** » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:13 pm

She does account for evil. She glorifies and revels in it. All her writing appeals to mankind's basest nature, and calls it the greater good.
That sure seems evil to me. Some friends and I recently got together and red a play of hers. The Night of January 16th or something like that. Just awful, pure brain poison.
Do Not Want.

Pattio · Post by **Pattio** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:09 am

Sooo, I really never plan to read any of her work. You guys who have : where is she with religion?

I ask because certain parties around here are so aggressive about sharing their atheist beliefs, up to and including derisive mockery of any and all individuals who even admit to tolerating theistic thought. Is that pretty much rands take on religion, or do her characters practice some known faiths in addition to their intellectualized and incentivized self-interest?

Explicit to the utmc atheist chorus: I'm asking a question about literature that can be answered with facts. If you have nothing to say except that you are an atheist and think I'm stupid, or perhaps even a novelty gif that you think says it for you, please don't, unless you consider it your goal to quash any and all discussion of religion in this forum.

SSCAM · Post by **SSCAM** » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:40 am

As one of the few people discussing this book who have actually read it cover to cover (and maybe the only one who enjoyed it), I can tell you Pattio that I have no recollection of her discussing the religious preferences of the characters. It's been a couple years since i've read it so if it was covered, it didn't play a prominent enough role in the story to be memorable for me.

She does push her philosophy pretty agressively in her fiction, but it is just fiction. I will also go as far as to say that it is a wholly unrealistic story. I enjoyed it more than The Fountainhead even though I think an average person could probably relate better to Howard Roark better than any of the key players in Atlas Shrugged.

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I keep throwing up in my mouth. It won't stop.

I keep throwing up in my mouth. It won't stop.

Re: I keep throwing up in my mouth. It won't stop.